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Car /Deer collision


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#1 smerchly

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

While we drive to our fishing holes early in the morning , we are prone to hitting a deer etc. that are active during these early hours . A woman in Ft.Erie swerved to avoid a deer & crashed her car into a hydro pole which came down & the wires caused the car to catch fire . She was rescued by an off duty fireman before the car was engulfed in flames .....and they charged her for careless driving ??? What choices do we have when a deer runs infront of our vehicles ? Slam on the brakes & get rear ended .....or take the deer out and wear it around your broken neck if you have a small car ? what would you guys do ? It happens a lot in the Niagara area .

Drive carefully . . .   It's not only cars that can be recalled by their Maker.


#2 Coachman

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 06:26 PM

It is a tough question. Years ago friends of my parents swerved to avoid an animal on the road and wound up dying in their car after it hit a tree and caught fire. On the other hand, I know of a couple who hit a moose and wound up with the animal crashing through the windshield, leaving one dead and the other in a wheelchair.

As for charging the driver with careless driving, I should hope that the Crown Attorney sees the stupidity of the charge and dismisses it before it sees court.
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#3 hammercarp

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 06:39 PM

I agree with coachman on this. I know of an incident where a car struck a deer and it was thrown into the path of another vehicle travelling in the opposite direction, The woman in that vehicle was killed.
I would swerve to avoid hitting a deer but not a cat.
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#4 Trouts-Only

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:26 PM

I agree with coachman on this. I know of an incident where a car struck a deer and it was thrown into the path of another vehicle travelling in the opposite direction, The woman in that vehicle was killed.
I would swerve to avoid hitting a deer but not a cat.



ok well speaking from personal experience of hitting 8 deer with my dad and 2 myself personally..i can tell you THE best thing to do is hit the deer...dont hit your brakes..dont swerve...HIT the animal its the safest outcome..once again this is speaking from experience..most of the deer we hit were in a small car...braking and swerving is the dumbest thing possible to do so please for your own safety and others hit whatever is crossing the road...and if your in moose territory...well no matter what you do the outcome cant be pretty ...and if your in moose territory you shouldnt be going fast to begin with go at a speed where you still have enough time to process what to do in your mind before reacting...thats just my own 2 cents from personal experience...

#5 Dan Andrews

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:27 PM

What if it were a child? Would she still be charged? I think not; case closed. Our instincts and split second reaction can't be included in careless driving because there is no time for carelessness in that situation. Unless they found here to have been texting when she hit the pole then it is a bogus charge.
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#6 Phranchise

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

agreed, unless there is some evidence of being negligent such as being on the phone etc, the charge should be thrown. I havn't had experience with a deer on the road thankfully but i think it would be safest just to bite the bullet and hit the deer. Heck of a lot safer than swirving. It is scary to think about tho, it can happen so fast
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#7 smerchly

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:52 PM

I believe you have to go with your instincts . If you are in a small car where the windshield is low to the ground and you are travelling at 100K or more , I would lock up the brakes and try to avoid a direct hit . If my vehicle was a full size truck , I would slow down cautiously and hit the deer or moose at a reduced speed . The windshields are much higher on 4x4 full size trucks ,so the occupants should not be hurt . Vehicle size does matter . Sometimes there is no time to do anything , e.g. ,when it's dark & the deer runs across the road only a few feet in front of you . When you are driving where deer may be present , drive a little under the posted speed limit and watch the sides of the road for emerging deer . I think the cops are in error charging this lady and hope they drop the charges.....she has gone through enough already .

Drive carefully . . .   It's not only cars that can be recalled by their Maker.


#8 hammercarp

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 09:29 PM

I would also like to say that anticipating where the trouble spots are will also help. I have avoided having to make the decision twice because I knew the area was watching for trouble. Also watch out for tail end charlie. If you see one or two deer cross the road ahead of you slow down because a lot of times there will be one lagging behind. I have avoided a deer by doing this as well.
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#9 coreyhkh

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 09:46 PM

I was told when I got my car insurance that I should hit the animal. I would recommend this unless it a moose in that case I was try and not.

#10 lara4228

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 10:23 PM

I believe you have to go with your instincts . If you are in a small car where the windshield is low to the ground and you are travelling at 100K or more , I would lock up the brakes and try to avoid a direct hit . If my vehicle was a full size truck , I would slow down cautiously and hit the deer or moose at a reduced speed . The windshields are much higher on 4x4 full size trucks ,so the occupants should not be hurt . Vehicle size does matter . Sometimes there is no time to do anything , e.g. ,when it's dark & the deer runs across the road only a few feet in front of you . When you are driving where deer may be present , drive a little under the posted speed limit and watch the sides of the road for emerging deer . I think the cops are in error charging this lady and hope they drop the charges.....she has gone through enough already .



No offense Smerchly, but if you're doing over 100k, and you lock up your brakes to avoid hitting it, you should be charged for going over the speed limit to startand reckless driving.

No to disagree with natural instince, but I distinctly remember reading in the Beginners Handbook (yes I read it B) ), the you are NOT to slow down, swerve or try to avoid hitting an animal.

It endangers you and other traffic. You then become an "unpredictable" driver...thus...a reckless driver.

This is one topic that is a very hard call. The humane side of our brains tells us NOT to hurt an animal, but the logical and reasoning aspect is, hit to avoid further damamge for those around us.

I think everybody should take skid control courses and defensive driving courses as part of getting our licenses.

I feel for the woman. Like you said, she has gone through enough already.
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#11 drsmooth

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 11:27 PM

No offense Smerchly, but if you're doing over 100k, and you lock up your brakes to avoid hitting it,

I think everybody should take skid control courses and defensive driving courses as part of getting our licenses.

I feel for the woman. Like you said, she has gone through enough already.


I agree that everyone should take skid control courses. I have taken a number of driving courses everything from racing school to driver's ed.

Each taught me something I have applied to a situation on the road. For instance if there is a car spinning out in front of you (or deer running across the road). Aim for where the car/deer is now. It most likely won't be there by the time by the time you get there. Do not steer in the direction the Car/Deer is moving. Doing so pretty much guarantees you will hit it.

As far as locking up the brakes. If you are on dry asphalt It is much more desirable to "Threshold Brake" [See this link for motorcycles http://splittinthebr...e.aspx?cms=2378 ] [This link for cars http://www.drivingfa...rol/braking.htm ].

Threshold breaking not only will slow you down faster than locking the brakes, but you will still have steering control (locked tires don't steer). Allowing you to steer around the obstacle. If you watch what professional race drivers do to avoid a spinning car or deer on the track (it happens). They threshold brake and aim for where the obstacle was. I tried to find some You Tube links related to this, but clips don't usually get posted there unless race cars are hitting stuff. Next time you watch a race on TV watch for this.

Threshold braking is something everyone should practice (when safe to do so).

That being said if you are on gravel or dirt. Locking the brakes will (in most cases) slow you faster because the tires may dig into the surface, but you will still loose steering control.

Edited by drsmooth, 15 August 2010 - 11:37 PM.


#12 road

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:12 AM

nice topic .

back in the 1980's while on I-95 in west virginia near 64 (i think ).. i was driving a near new 379 Peterbuilt .

at a speed of 50mph and a fully loaded trailer , 4 deer ran out about 60 feet in front of me, i hit 2 of them ,

my instant reaction was to hold the wheel tight foot off the fuel..

$3500 damage to the truck and 1 deer dead the other limped off in the bush .

i did not lose control or hit anything other than the deer . hwy patrol said i did the right thing.

no charges other than the repairs of the truck.

no matter what your opinion is or your training and experience every situation is different , just like racing no one

can tell the outcome . i have seen moose take out 6 people in a mini van in Ohio or a young mother driving a

chevette in NorthBay Ont. moose go over and through the vehicle no matter the size of it..

deer on the other hand take out the front end and some times go over depending on speed and vehicle size.

even a few years ago an O.P.P. in holand marsh ontario on his way to an emergency hit a moose and the senoir officer

was d.o.a.

sadly it is part of driving like ice , snow , bird crap , or bugs on the winshield in the summer...

as stated it is caution that will save your life while driving.

so the next time you get P.O.'ed at the sunday driver doing less then you wish and pass them

in discust.. they might just be a witness for your mishap ...


ROAD .

#13 CLofchik

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:10 AM

There is never a justifiable excuse to loose control of your vehicle, ever. Period.

#14 smerchly

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 09:25 AM

Lara , when I said going 100K or more , I meant driving on highways . Even on roads like Victoria Ave .from Vineland to hwy 20 etc., where the posted speed is 80km., drivers will go 100k. Most cars have ABS now & when you lock up the brakes , the ABS allows you to brake hard & steer away from a collsion .Like coachman said , it's a hard call when you have no time to react . That is why I slow down in situations where it's obvious that you need to use extra caution ( road conditions , weather conditions , flow of traffic etc etc. The drivers handbook could use some updating on this subject . I slowed down quickly for a family of geese crossing the road this year . I knew there were no cars behind me ....and if there was a car on my tail it would be their fault if they hit me for following too close & not having control of their vehicle, so the geese all lived . Some people would have ran them down and never give it a second thought . Each situation is different ,and all we can do is react as quickly as possible to that situation . The lady who is being charged may have erred after looking at the outcome of that accident & hitting the deer may or may not have been any prettier . Should she be charged, it will cost her insurance rates to go up & her driving record will be tarnished . Put yourselves in her situation and I think you would not be too happy being charged .

Drive carefully . . .   It's not only cars that can be recalled by their Maker.


#15 Luvevolution

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:00 PM

Road

only 3500 bucks worth of damage to your 379 Pete? you got off lucky. LOL. I remember whacking a deer in Wisconsin in my 379 and it was 5 grand just for the Texas bumper. if I remember right, the entire bill was 11,500 in parts and paint. glad it was a company rig and not O/O. LOL.

Lara

the reason why they tell you to hit an animal in the beginners handbook, is because the powers that be, recognize that most people tend to panick and they lose control of a vehicle when put in a stressful environment such as obstruction avoidance. for this reason, it's easier and often less damaging to any and all around, if you just hit the animal. but this is NOT always the best or right way out of a situation. in fact, as a professional driver, having had extensive training in defensive driving, tractor-trailer skid pad training, high stress training, etc, etc, I can tell you that it's all about reflexes and how your brain interacts and relates to your body. this is the problem with drivers of cars and how they are trained, right from the get go and it shows us that there are serious imperfections with the system. I would be the first to admit that as a car driver, I was like the average driver, I knew nothing. LOL. I'm not knocking anyone here, so don't take offence, but drivers of cars have the least knowledge of how physics applies to them and the vehicle they drive. the sad part is, I didn't know any of it either, till I became a professional driver and got the training I was lacking. this is why I believe that driver's education should be put into schools, like they do in the US. it starts at grade 9 and you get your licence when you graduate in grade 12. in the mean time, you get in car experience, but more importantly, you get in class training that covers everything from physics, to car care, to changing oil, to changing a tire, etc, etc. these are the things that are lacking and that most people don't know about, but should. if this were the case, you'de never see a four wheeler cutting off an 80,000+lb transport truck, because they would know what the outcome of that might be. of course, one of the courses would be avoiding collisions, animals, people, etc..........what most call defensive driving. remember, there's no such thing as an accident, because there's always a cause, a bad decision and an outcome involved with a collision of any kind. for this reason, I agree with what CLofchik just said in the last post, "There is never a justifiable excuse to loose control of your vehicle, ever. Period." how true that is, especially if you go with what I just said about there being no such thing as an accident.

as far as the accident is concerned, I feel for the woman about getting charged. but the bottom line is, the law states that you must be in care and control of your vehicle at all times. if you hit something, you are no longer in care and control of said vehicle. plain and simple. so, while I feel bad for her, at the same time, she should be charged with careless driving because she hit something while being out of control of the vehicle she is mandated to be in control of at all times. there should be no excuses and in fact, there's a paragraph in the criminal code that states, "ignorance is no excuse for the law". in other words, just because you have a moment of what I call "law lapse", it doesn't excuse you from it. we also do not not know her prior relationship with the police. remember, that every traffic stop, or traffic report is ALWAYS at the discretion of the on site officer. in other words, he or she doesn't have to give you a ticket if he or she doesn't want to. plain and simple. the chance of you getting a ticket increases if you have a prior relationship with the police and/or the MTO because at that point, that "officer discretion" goes right out the window and you will be charged no matter what. so it's entirely plausible that she has a prior record on file and the discretion was turned into opposition. LOL. my oppinion is that she deserves to get charged and should pay for it, because she was not in care and control of her vehicle. I'm just waiting for North America to adopt the "tickets geared to income" scheme, where you get fined a percentage of how much you earn annualy. it's coming, it's just a matter of when and I think it's extremely fair. why should a millionaire pay the same amount as someone on welfare? you get the point. LOL. think about it, you could support the entire police department, based on less tickets handed out, which would lessen the monthly quota, which we all know they have and is hush hush. LOL. that means it's less likely that the every day joe would get a ticket, cause the cops are happy. I'm all for that. LOL.

Rich
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#16 road

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:15 PM

[quote name='Luvevolution' date='Aug 16 2010, 01:00 PM' post='163108']
Road

only 3500 bucks worth of damage to your 379 Pete? you got off lucky. LOL. I remember whacking a deer in Wisconsin in my 379 and it was 5 grand just for the Texas bumper. if I remember right, the entire bill was 11,500 in parts and paint. glad it was a company rig and not O/O. LOL.

yea , it had a Northen moose bumper on... lmao... the right head light pod and some stainless, glass repairs light paint touch ups.. it was my friends rig ..

road.

#17 lara4228

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:52 PM

Rich, that was nicely said. I agree with you.

I am a firm believer on principals, regulations and proper procedure. To a "T".

I'm not an experienced driver. So my input would definitley not be as intense as everyone else's ;)

The scenarios you gave seem to be valid though.
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#18 Paulie Tigernuts

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:08 PM

I'm fairly certain that anytime someone is involved in a single vehicle collision, the driver is always charged with Careless Driving. Its up to the person charged to plead their case in court as to why they shouldn't be charged.

A friend of mine blew a tire a few years ago and skidded of the road into a field. No damage to the car or any other property, but she was charged with Careless Driving.

I also agree that its never a good idea to swerve in order to miss an animal.


 


#19 drsmooth

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 10:52 PM

I'm fairly certain that anytime someone is involved in a single vehicle collision, the driver is always charged with Careless Driving. Its up to the person charged to plead their case in court as to why they shouldn't be charged.

A friend of mine blew a tire a few years ago and skidded of the road into a field. No damage to the car or any other property, but she was charged with Careless Driving.

I also agree that its never a good idea to swerve in order to miss an animal.


It makes sense. If the Police didn't. Everyone could claim a "insert animal here" ran out in front of them.

#20 lara4228

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 11:01 PM

It makes sense. If the Police didn't. Everyone could claim a "insert animal here" ran out in front of them.



:roflblack: Very true. I would love to have my neighbours dogs miraculously "run in front our car"! :roflblack:
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