Letter to The Editor

[Guest canadadude]

Hey Dan very good letter I read from you in todays standard good to see your out there fighting for us sportsman and keeping an eye on the tree huggers!!! I fully agree with you, leave it to the tree huggers to use pet cruelty to push through there hidden aggenda I myself beleave in stiffer penalities for people abusing pets but lets not confuse that issue with our right to hunt and fish!!! Great job Dude keep up the good work

[Guest canadadude]

I'll read it when I go to my parents on Friday.....but I'm sure I'll be saying what the 'Dude has just said.

go get a Standard you cheap bugger .............hey Tommy you may be able to read it online

[Guest canadadude]

Hmmmmmm. It is online. Its free, so why not?

Sweet Tommy, thanks for the print out

[smerchly]

Hey Chili....you have a good coach ........me ! . Now are thinking like the old man.......very good write up Dan.....Dad is proud !

[Dan Andrews]

I was happy to see some top brass trashed me in the feedback section on the reviews website. If you read her reply, then read it again, you'll see how fake they really are. She basically discredited the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies.

I was going to point out her misquotes/representations and mistakes but if you don't see her for what she is, you'll never get what I'm saying anyway.

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/webapp/fe...e=Read+Feedback

That's the problem with this issue however. Too many animal whacky's willing to write but no one defends hunting etc. We just sit like ducks on the water while they take shots. Can't see the logic

[ROB MCINTOSH]

Way to go Chilli: it is nice to see reports ilke this pop up and get the truth out. The problem is there are not enough of these reports being printed.Just think if there was just 1 a week don't you think every one would jump on board to pass this and get on with life. Think about it and start sending in comments to be printed, Great job Dan. Rob

[jwl]

great work Dan, looks like you got the pot stirring again,your arm must be getting sore as the plot thickens

[Dan Andrews]

Actually Jack I'm disappointed and question whether I should have bothered at all. The OFAH won't respond to my emails nor will the COHA, the Niagara outdoor clubs, the Senator etc. I'm encouraged that there were not the usual LTTE (letter to the Editor) replies as this may indicate I've stymied them but at the same time I've provoked a response from a large animal organization who asked me the question. The question was the one we said would come from the wording in Bill C-373 yet it hasn't seemed to have stirred up any notice from the people who need this (proof in the pudding) response! Do you think hunting and fishing is cruel?

Even Rick O"Banion is too busy to respond. The main reason I sent that letter to about 12 papers throughout Niagara is because we have been getting this Bill-C373 rammed down our throats every week. The dam bill has been resurrected too many times and won't become legislation due to the wording and they know it! Bill S-213 was introduced to this newest house before C-373 because stiffer penalties are overdue. Most of the public doesn't even know S-213 even exists and that the Government has indicated it will pass it yet they still push their petition.

Meanwhile stories of animal abuse are sensationalized to promote a Bill that will never pass!!!

Does it look like these dumbbells are hanging off Waldorf's friggin neck? The first picture I ever saw can't be found but it looked as though the weights were at the end of a 6 foot lead. Maybe the dogs collar was dug into it's skin and yes it was abandoned but for Gods sake don't use this dog to help you prosecute farmers, hunters and the medical industry! Pass S-213 and throw this dogs owner in the clink. Then try and ban hunting and fishing separate because they are 2 separate issues.

If anyone here thinks I'm out of line please email me or send a PM because I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I'm just an A-hole mouthing off about something I don't really know about. I must have made some sort of major error because when I ask the questions all I get is

from the OFAH and every other rod & gun Organization. Either that or there are allot of no balls people afraid to point out that the SPCA's aren't the saintly rescuers they once were.

[jwl]

regardless of what might seem to be a bit of a let down for you right now Dan,rest assured you got your point across to someone somewhere, and most of all you can stand proud that you are one of the ones who isn't afraid to speak up...and you do do the leg work and look into the information to back your claims. And if anything, you can be glad that you stand up for things that you firmly belive in...and for the benefit of other sport'smen(and women) and other conservationists as well.

There is always someone that is going to find some sort of issue against fishing and hunting....some will argue against the use of working dogs on a hunt...others will argue about "canned hunts", others will try and make points againsts not dropping your quarry on the first shot, or that your fish wriggled when ya bonked it on the head, before it met your knife and your table.

Fishing and hunting is part of our heritage as Canadians...it's part of our culture, for many it's part of thier lifestyle and a means of food during lean times,if it wasn't for hunting and fishing many people specially in Northern parts of our province wouldn't eat in the winter...heck our whole county's foundation and economy was practically founded from the fur trade at one point in time.

There is always going to be some yahoo out there in the bush with a firearm of sorts who is just out to take potshots at any ole thing that stirs a blade of grass..and the other yahoos that blatantly discard thier kill just so they can go home with a head that has a huge rack to hang on thier wall to brag to thier buddies about....and there are always going to be yahoos out there that wreak havoc on our fish populations,cause property damage, tresspass, and pollute on and around out waterways. And sad to say that people like yourself are the ones who work hard to protect these things, wether it be a conservation/restoration project..or standing up for a cause, that in turn does benefit these yahoos...but there are thousands of other people in our province that are stand-up people with great ethics when it comes to the outdoor rescourses that we have, and respect and value them as well, that you are making an effort to try and stand up for along the way.

How many times have we debated and read on here about standing up and getting something done instead of sitting back and complaining about it...wether it be people stepping up to maintain a stocking effort, or game enhancement project..or like on the forefront here as well...making the CO's aware of regulation infractions/poaching, and sometimes just protecting our access to fishing/hunting grounds in general...this is done by the ones who step up to the plate and do something about it...and like said before...sometimes just showing up for a meeting about something..wether you have something to say or not counts...if someone comes to adress a room full of people, rest assured someone, somewhere will take notice and hear about the issue

[bigugli]

You did a ggreat job Dan. An org. like the OFAH is not going to rapid fire a response to you. It is still a large political org, and it will carefully measure any statement it makes. With it being summer, A lot of clubs don't meet again til Sept. There will be no discussion at that level until then unfortunately.

Just keep plugging and soldier on.

[smerchly]

Exactly what Bruce said......Ever wonder why it takes years to pass certain bills ? It is hashed over & over back & forth costing big dollars .......getting lawyers & consultants & of course , readng the pulse of the public to get votes . Politics is the bottom line here , like the hand gun ban now in the lime light now . We have lost our newspapers to Quebec now , and the new owner Quebecor , will print their views to us Ontarioans & we all know they want hand guns and eventually all guns banned .That will make the fight all the more difficult with so much control handed to one big conglamorate newspaper .

[knightfisher]

Dan, well done for taking the responsibilty for writing the letter. Most of us for one reason

or another don't get involved like we should. Yes a few of us monitored and walked the

pier out here recently, even my daughter came along, and as a result we got a few tickets

handed out, but it's a far cry from what's really needed and required to keep our sport

safe and available to all.

Keep doing what your doing Dan, and I know some of that will rub off on us.

Well done Dan, for taking the responsibility you did, and just know, no matter how

the effects seem to come across, you are causing things to happen.

Dan

[Dan Andrews]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I think the girl read my site because she finally sent a copy to the editor but toned down the parts I caught her on. But still the big shots at the humane society have me discouraged. I thought there was still some innocent branches but this anti lingo came straight from the top. She knows dam well what the objection to the bill is and outright ignored the problems here in Niagara and pointed the car at the buggy I just rolled into the street.

I'm still hoping someone besides myself will write an intelligent reply to point out her mistakes. I didn't say all animal groups are the same! The Senator certainly doesn't support her choice of bill and she did pose the question.

I want you guys to check something out. It's sort of the alternative to the OFAH but I see it as more hunting then anything.

http://www.coha.net/page.asp?involved/letter_guide.html

Just remember, there is a huge difference between animal welfare and animal rights. Unfortunately it looks as though the SPCA's are getting the 2 mixed up and I hope I'm wrong about how far spread its gotten.

Please consider writing a rebuttal if your good at that sort of thing.

[Dan Andrews]

Apparently this SPCA head honcho has been reading my website and seeing what I've been pointing out about her reply. She tones it down with each response, the latest on Aug 10th in the Standard.

I tell you guys I've been getting a lot of pats on the back but no backing for that letter.

Who else supports Bill s-213?

Alberta Fish & Game Association

British Columbia Wildlife Federation

Canadian Federation of Biological Societies

Canadians for Medical Progress

Canadian Psychological Association

Canadian Society for Biochemistry, Molecular and Cellular Biology

Canadian Sportfishing Industry Association

Delta Waterfowl Foundation

Manitoba Wildlife Federation

Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Nova Scotia Federation of Anglers and Hunters

Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters

Quebec Wildlife Federation

New Brunswick Wildlife Federation

Northwest Territories Wildlife Federation

Prince Edward Island Wildlife Federation

Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation

Yukon Fish & Game Association

Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association

Ontario Fur Managers Federation

National Wild Turkey Federation

Ruffed Grouse Society

Canadian Outdoor Heritage Alliance

Still no one else will write a rebuttal to show how fake the SPCA has become.

Guess it's time to hang it up now

Thanks for the compliments but your preaching to the converted.

There are now Thousands of Niagarians who think hunters are stupid and uninformed because I (one guy) can't write back for 30 days!

Oh by the way Rick I'm sorry I said I would not advertise here but this is important to me. I know the lady has been reading my site. No replies just looks plain bad.

my site

[Smokin Joe]

Chilli you pointed out several great issues in your letter. In these type of situations you can't leave any grey areas, or they will use them as they see fit.

The ex and I were just discussing the spca the other day. Seems she went in to adopt a cat. She was all prepared until they advised her that it would cost almost $600 so they could give it shots and fix it.

You can get them for less at the pet store already done I believe

She just turned around and walked out the door.

[Dan Andrews]

Ya well hows this.

A friends Wife was participating in the SPCA's dog walking program. You sign up to volunteer your time walking dogs for the betterment of their health. She applied for a membership ($10) and the humane was thrilled. When asked about her Husbands job, they were unhappy to find out he worked at a poultry processing facility in Port Colbourne and they sent her packing.

Guys the list goes on. I really hope there are still some good Humane Societies out there but with this response from the head honcho it appears more and more like the SPCA in another terrorist organization like the United States Humane Society. Look it up!

If no one wants to write a rebuttal then at least consider contacting your MPP and offer support for Bill S-213 and explain your concerns about Bill C-373. I believe Rick Dykstra and Rob Nicholson cover most of us here but Dean Allison I believe may cover some others.

[smerchly]

People who work for the humane societies must be vegans if this is their attitude for membership qualifications . We adopted an abused dog & my wife happened to mention that i went moose hunting .....I detected a very somber look from one of the directors, not knowing they frowned on hunting .I now understand what that was all about .But they do kill thousands of animals there ? I am still confused......

[Smokin Joe]

People who work for the humane societies must be vegans if this is their attitude for membership qualifications . We adopted an abused dog & my wife happened to mention that i went moose hunting .....I detected a very somber look from one of the directors, not knowing they frowned on hunting .I now understand what that was all about .But they do kill thousands of animals there ? I am still confused......

You're not confused at all. The only thing is you're thinking on a wider level. They are only worried about the population they have in their care, not for the good of the species. I guess it's ok to kill them when they're taking up to much room, but not to keep the population down so they won't starve to death.

[Dan Andrews]

I'm not placing the humane society in St Catharines in the same box as PETA Smerch but I'll shed a little light on animal rights ideology. They want to protect animals from people. Much like the Mother guppy eats her own babies to protect them from you while you pear in her aquarium, the people at PETA have been accused of needlessly euthanizing thousands of animals to protect them from the bonds of slavery.

Ya that's what they consider being a pet. Your dog is a slave and is better off dead. Watch this (5 1/2 minutes)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="

name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

The Lincoln County Humane Society does adopt out there pets. PETA is an extremist group that we shouldn't confuse with our local organizations. The video was simply a demonstration of what this areas animal rescues could turn into if the anti hunting crowd isn't kicked out of our humane societies now!

[bigugli]

Letters similar to your own have just been run in the paper hear in West Niagara.So others are making noise. As for the local shelter , it has few friends in the farm community. Won't allow hunters to be members. Too busy with its political agenda to put much effort into its original mandate.

[Dan Andrews]

That's great news Bruce. Did you happen to note the date and authors of the letters? I've been pushing hard it would be nice to know if I've broke through to anyone. I can't find the letters online anywhere.

Dan

[bigugli]

Not sure which paper, there are two. Issue date was Aug. 8th.

[Dan Andrews]

Well even more letters have poured through the St Catharines Standard casting a shadow on Hunters. There were 2 things my letter to the editor intended to do.

1: Raise awareness that there was indeed more than one animal cruelty bill to support.

2: Let people know that one bill is supported by all interested parties except the animal rights people and that the other was once again controversial.

Another thing the animal rights crowd leaves out. The wording in Bill C-373 can allow them to challenge other industries! Is animal testing cruel or brutal? Not if it's their kids with a rare type of cancer I assure you. Many of these Hippocrates have donated to the Cancer Foundation. Thank you for the mice and rats. If it were up to the animal right org's the children at sick kids hospital would be sent home because finding a cure means testing animals to death. Affordable food would be a thing of the past. Sorry Seniors but Farmers kill nuisance animals and cage livestock.

These anti hunting people just can't seem to separate the hunting issue with the animal cruelty issue. There are already laws in place to protect wildlife. Stiff fines and the loss of your vehicles and hunting and fishing investments (rods and guns etc.) are a serious deterrent. Most anglers and hunters would support even stiffer fines for infractions.

The anti hunting community knows dam well what the wording issues are in Bill C-373. They blatantly ignore this in their replies to my letter and not one sportsman has pointed this out. The words Cruel and "Brutal" specifically have a broad meaning left to be determined and challenged by the individual.

While everyone of these letter writers denies an anti hunting agenda exists in the bill, everyone of them point out how unethical hunting really is. Is it not obvious that these people are on the ropes right now. It's like they never expected anyone to point out that charities with a good name like the SPCA might not be totally forthcoming with their agenda.

Since my letter I have been called a murderer and have been told I have no business acting as though I have compassion for animals. I still to this day have never harvested one animal but because I pointed out the controversy, my Son, Father and myself are cruel killers who shouldn't own animals. Both my Father and myself fell for sob stories and are now proud parents of formerly abused dogs. My Father's dog (a pit bull) was hated by the Government and a sizable portion of society yet he the hunter took the dog in and loves it.

The SPCA has earned many enemies in the hunting community. No matter how concerned a hunter is, free of criminal charges and capable of caring for an animal, he is not welcome as a member of the SPCA! If you work at the slaughter house helping to provide food to these fanatics, don't even bother inquiring about membership or adopting a pet from the SPCA.

and now from the hunting and fishing community:

[Dan Andrews]

More from the anti's in the St Kitts Rag:

Animals are better protected by proposed Bill C-373

For: www.stcatharinesstandard.ca

- Thursday, August 16, 2007 @ 01:00

Re: There's a better option for ending cruelty to animals, The Standard, Aug. 1.

Dan andrews is concerned that bill C-373, "has a hidden anti-hunting agenda" as opposed to Senate bill S-213. Bill C-373 would make it an offence to kill any animal without lawful excuse. Hunting, fishing, trapping, farming and scientific research are all lawful activities. Both bills increase penalties to a jail term of up to five years and unlimited fines for indictable offences. Both also allow bans on keeping an animal and may require payment of restitution.

Bill S-213 leaves the term "wilful neglect" in animal cruelty laws, requiring motive to be proven. For example, a Saskatchewan farmer who starved 30 sheep despite warnings was found not guilty because the court couldn't prove he intended them to starve.

Bill C-373 uses the term "negligent," defined as "departing markedly from the standard of care that a reasonable person would use."

Bill C-373 makes it an offence to kill an animal without a lawful excuse, including stray or wild animals.

Bill S-213 doesn't.

Bill C-373 makes it an offence to kill an animal with brutal or vicious intent, even if the animal dies immediately.

Bill S-213 does not.

Bill C-373 protects all vertebrates, owned or unowned.

S-213 provides different levels of protection for different animals. For example, cattle are in a class of their own and wild or stray animals are unprotected for some offences.

Bill C-373 prohibits training animals to fight other animals and betting on such fights.

S-213 doesn't.

With Bill S-213, crimes against animals are considered property offences.

C-373 puts animal cruelty into a new section of the Criminal Code, warranting protection because they are feeling, sentient beings.

It's ironic that hunters, who kill animals for sport, also claim to care about the suffering and welfare of animals.

Cath Hurwood

Gale Crescent

St. Catharines

[smerchly]

Chili........not much in responses........like beating your head against the wall......but ,remember , the anti's are a huge number .......99% of people do not hunt , and the anti's know this . They also have huge funding sources including rich celebs.etc.and can buy a lot of publicity . They are also very fanatical and you have to be careful , never know what they would do to people who speak against them . I would let the people from groups like the OFAH etc. do the publicity work and help back them with our donations etc.........