Global warming losing more credibility

[knightfisher]

The Sun Also Sets

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Climate Change: Not every scientist is part of Al Gore's mythical "consensus." Scientists worried about a new ice age seek funding to better observe something bigger than your SUV — the sun.

Back in 1991, before Al Gore first shouted that the Earth was in the balance, the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study using data that went back centuries that showed that global temperatures closely tracked solar cycles.

To many, those data were convincing. Now, Canadian scientists are seeking additional funding for more and better "eyes" with which to observe our sun, which has a bigger impact on Earth's climate than all the tailpipes and smokestacks on our planet combined.

And they're worried about global cooling, not warming.

Kenneth Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, is among those looking at the sun for evidence of an increase in sunspot activity.

Solar activity fluctuates in an 11-year cycle. But so far in this cycle, the sun has been disturbingly quiet. The lack of increased activity could signal the beginning of what is known as a Maunder Minimum, an event which occurs every couple of centuries and can last as long as a century.

Such an event occurred in the 17th century. The observation of sunspots showed extraordinarily low levels of magnetism on the sun, with little or no 11-year cycle.

This solar hibernation corresponded with a period of bitter cold that began around 1650 and lasted, with intermittent spikes of warming, until 1715. Frigid winters and cold summers during that period led to massive crop failures, famine and death in Northern Europe.

Tapping reports no change in the sun's magnetic field so far this cycle and warns that if the sun remains quiet for another year or two, it may indicate a repeat of that period of drastic cooling of the Earth, bringing massive snowfall and severe weather to the Northern Hemisphere.

Tapping oversees the operation of a 60-year-old radio telescope that he calls a "stethoscope for the sun." But he and his colleagues need better equipment.

In Canada, where radio-telescopic monitoring of the sun has been conducted since the end of World War II, a new instrument, the next-generation solar flux monitor, could measure the sun's emissions more rapidly and accurately.

As we have noted many times, the biggest impact on the Earth's climate over time has been the sun.

For instance, researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Solar Research in Germany report the sun has been burning more brightly over the last 60 years, accounting for the 1 degree Celsius increase in Earth's temperature over the last 100 years.

R. Timothy Patterson, professor of geology and director of the Ottawa-Carleton Geoscience Center of Canada's Carleton University, says that "CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales."Rather, he says, "I and the first-class scientists I work with are consistently finding excellent correlations between the regular fluctuations of the sun and earthly climate. This is not surprising. The sun and the stars are the ultimate source of energy on this planet."

Patterson, sharing Tapping's concern, says: "Solar scientists predict that, by 2020, the sun will be starting into its weakest Schwabe cycle of the past two centuries, likely leading to unusually cool conditions on Earth."

"Solar activity has overpowered any effect that CO2 has had before, and it most likely will again," Patterson says. "If we were to have even a medium-sized solar minimum, we could be looking at a lot more bad effects than 'global warming' would have had."

In 2005, Russian astronomer Khabibullo Abdusamatov made some waves — and a few enemies in the global warming "community" — by predicting that the sun would reach a peak of activity about three years from now, to be accompanied by "dramatic changes" in temperatures.

A Hoover Institution Study a few years back examined historical data and came to a similar conclusion.

"The effects of solar activity and volcanoes are impossible to miss. Temperatures fluctuated exactly as expected, and the pattern was so clear that, statistically, the odds of the correlation existing by chance were one in 100," according to Hoover fellow Bruce Berkowitz.

The study says that "try as we might, we simply could not find any relationship between industrial activity, energy consumption and changes in global temperatures."

The study concludes that if you shut down all the world's power plants and factories, "there would not be much effect on temperatures."But if the sun shuts down, we've got a problem. It is the sun, not the Earth, that's hanging in the balance.

[Tom Chopin]

I knew it! I'm going to buy an icehut at the end of season sales........

[bigugli]

At present, the science of predicting weather patterns, locally or globally, is less accurate than making predictions by reading the entrails of birds. Regardless of which side of the argument.

[Guest Rockfish]

At present, the science of predicting weather patterns, locally or globally, is less accurate than making predictions by reading the entrails of birds. Regardless of which side of the argument.

Excellent points Bruce. The main problem the environment is having is pollution, whether they want to call it global warming or not. This could go on and on about the effects of pollution and don't think people are being brainwashed to think a certain way. It's an awareness to the damages being done to the environment and mainly about trying to get cleaner air. The air has become alot less healthy to breathe because of more vehicles on the road along with the emissions of burning other fuels ect. in industry. Maybe some people just don't care about dirty air to breathe.

[knightfisher]

At present, the science of predicting weather patterns, locally or globally, is less accurate than making predictions by reading the entrails of birds. Regardless of which side of the argument.

For sure, Bruce, prediction of weather has been way off compared to years gone by.

Also if I recall, ''reading the entrails of birds'' was used by various rulers of the past,

to decide if it was right to engage in war.....

Back to the weather.......

Could it be some countries are violating the UNs treaty.

On December 10, 1978 the United Nations signed an agreement NOT to use weather modification as a form of warfare against another nation. ...

"CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES APPROVED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS ON 10 DECEMBER 1976".

Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977

Entered into force October 5, 1978

One just has to gooogle the UN web site to get the information.

Or if one feels daring, they could google HAARP.

Of course, we all know the various countries around the world always

tell the truth to it's citizens and never lies.......right...............

The ''main'' problem is man's interference with nature and weather.

This crock of global warming is just that. A crock.

The truth is out there, use google to find it, before the internet is totally

controlled as well.

You did know that was next on the adgenda of course.

[Pope29]

I would still like to hear why you think this fake global warning is being forced upon us...and by whom?? and now the internet too......

[knightfisher]

I would still like to hear why you think this fake global warning is being forced upon us...and by whom?? and now the internet too......

Yes Joe, eventually I will post why this is happening.

However taking my word for it does not give you the information.

Have you checked out the satellite pictures Nasa has available.

Have you read the UNs treaty about countries not using weather

modification, and signing it.

Why would the United Nations have this treaty signed by various

countries. Because the technology is out there.

And has your government every lied at all to the people.

Do we know all countries are honouring this treaty.

As myself, Tommy, Queeny, Smerchly and others have stated,

the information is out there.

One just has to avail themself to it.

Did you read any of the data on HAARP.

One has to really investigate as much information as possible

before blindly accepting the spew, the powers that be are

handing out to us.

Alot of people are very busy trying to make ends meet, raising

familys and the rest, to afford anytime to seach out the truth.

But one needs to inform oneself of the truth.

I bet you know longer buy food with out reading the ingredients

anymore, due to all the junk they now put into the foods. MSG,

chemicals, that can't even be pronounced, various preservitives.....

Well now people have to expand their scope, and find out as

much as the truth as possible, because our governments are

not going to tell us the truth.

The truth is out there.

[smerchly]

Looks like a repeat of 1977 ? with the phony gas shortage . People are buying small cars to save gas ....exactly what the bigwigs want to see so they can double the price & make their cool billions & we won't notice the change as much with our new sardine cans . I put $112 in gas in my old beast yesterday & doubling the price won't cause me to by a small car . .......and I'm keeping my long johns handy !

but on the other hand ........there is proof of global warming ........

[Guest Rockfish]

but on the other hand ........there is proof of global warming ........

I KNEW IT !!!!!! THERE IS PROOF TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY !!!!!!!!

I still wanna see what the 2008 style looks like.

[knightfisher]

Good one Bill

I still wanna see what the 2008 style looks like.

Pretty hard to hang dental floss on the line Dave

[Dan Andrews]

I agree global warming may be an inappropriate term as climate change is much more fitting.

When I'm done reading all the conspiracy theories Dan has provided and is scaring the crap out of Tommy with, I'm going to step outside and imagine trying to survive in today's natural climate. It has changed dramatically, has no carrying capacity even for a minimal population and is polluted to the point where it's getting harder to find safe water or food naturally without treatment.

Is Al Gore full of crap? Yes I believe so, he's a politician. Is the info Dan provided coming from a more reliable source? I doubt it. Most scientists or researchers are funded by someone and that income comes from someone hoping for a certain result. Go to school, get the credentials and get paid to give what ever they're conclusion they're looking for.

Like I said before, step outside and look around. You don't need someone else to tell you things are changing or they're just not right. That mass of brick up the 400 isn't getting any smaller but our natural canopy sure is! Question is have we reached our breaking point or limitations for the natural/development balance? IMO that happened in the 50's. That's all you really have to go by.

Yes Dan Knowledge is Power but where you get your knowledge is important. Your own eyes, nose and senses should be your first clue. That and they had to shut down an huge industrial sector in China so the Olympians could breath. Now where did I get that info!

Don't forget your tinfoil hat before stepping outside eh?

The Government satellites might notice we're not afraid enough!

[bigugli]

A very large number of today's writers and journalists have as much integrity as the bottom feeders and ambulance chasers. Objective investigation and research have gone the way of the toilet for the sake of sales.

Then again, more people would prefer to read trash rags over anything objective. No wonder the Enquirer and Sun do so well.

[Dan Andrews]

Yet another very serious wind day here in Fort Erie. Too many to count this winter. Our trees are so damaged it looks like crap in winter not to mention the ice getting blown into the houses near the shore. This year hasn't been safe to walk the creeks. Every time it freezes enough to walk on, another warm front wind storm come along and it's been like one big yoyo ride all winter.

Man you used to be able to walk the Lake on every winter. I moved here in 2001 and I think it's frozen across once! The summer temps in the Lake are exceeding stagnate. This summer hosted a 50 year drought following a 100 year ice storm and preceded a record wind year.

No nothing happening here.

I sure hope they shoot down that weather manipulating satellite soon. I'm the only neighbour left who still has his trampoline.

[knightfisher]

I do belong to a number of conspiracy sites Dan, but have yet to post anything

from them.

I prefer to post from papers from around the world, the UN, or Nasa or various governments etc.

They can't all be wrong or about conspiracy Dan, as many of them conflict with the other.

There has to be some truth in some of them.

And as I and others have stated, one has to do alot of homework to get some truth.

One can't just blindly accept we are being told the truth by people like Gore that

use deceiving data to overwhelm the masses.

Pollution and the scam of global warming are completely different.

China shutting down industry for pollution has nothing to do with global warming Dan.

My threads and post have to do with the scam of global warming, not the dangers

of continued pollution. See the difference.

Pollution does contain some gases, but mostly particulates in the air, can be seen, especially over the lake on a clear day, or in the valley in Califorina to name a few places.

The more pollution and particulates in the air the cooler the earth becomes. Witness the one degree

world wide drop in temp when Mt. St. Helens erupted years back, spewing ash and pollution in to

the air.

CO gases are clear, usually odorless.

As posted in some of my other threads....

The following are signatories to the Dec. 13th letter to the Ban Ki- moon, Secretary-General of the United Nations on the UN Climate conference in Bali: Over a hundred scientists and professors from all over the

world make a ''conspiracy'' because they disagree with global warming coming from some other scientist.???/

In my thread, So it appears that Arctic ice isn't vanishing after all

Christopher Booker story on the deception of the picture of the polar bears taken in the summer

to upset the masses..... where's the conspiracy in that, he let the people know Gore was mis leading

the public

As well as posting from various news sources, the tough winters some countries haven't seen

in tens of years, no conspiracy there,

bye the bye Dan, please tell me you don't believe in the pristine magic bullet theory, you know

the one where the bullet made some right and left hand turns in mid flight, and didn't have a

mark on it, you know, the lone gunman theory re JFK, or that Bush went into Iraq to instill

democracy.

Many scientists and researchers are funded by someone and that income comes from someone hoping for a certain result, true.

However many also have integrity and honor and state the facts, which upsets the powers that be.

So the '' true '' researchers are ridiculed and their data thrown aside.

You have to look and decide which ones make sense to you.

You don't think carburetors haven't been developed to get 50 + mpg for larger cars,

Who would lose '' big '' time if cars got great milage.

My ford van in 1971 got about 14mpg. My ford van in 2007 is only getting 15mpg.

In 30+ years the car companies could not come up with better milage. Give me a break.

Again who has the most to lose here, big oil.

How about the common cold hasn't a cure, or that a cure for cancer hasn't been found.

Look in a drug store.

Two to three rows of nothing but cold and cough remedies. Times that

by how many millions of drug stores world wide.

These remedies are owned by only a hand full of pharmacudicals

that supply the entire world Dan.

Theys few companies make TRILLIONS each year.

Not millions or billions, but trillions each year.

Ya think these companies have something to lose if a cure was released. I think so !!!!

What you have to look at it who has to lose the most if these things came in to being.

And these people that have to lose the most, are part of the powers that want to keep

people in the dark spending their hard earned $$$ buying all this crap.

Why do you have such a hard time getting people helping out in your various ventures Dan.....

Because the powers that be, perhaps have a different agenda, and have convinced the

people that it's not important to be concerned about conservation and such. So much

so the government makes all kinds of cuts, which then proves to the masses that

conservation is not that important.

Then because no one is doing anything, you get

Greenpeace starting up trying to bring it to peoples attention, then they get slammed.

Who wins if Greenpeace and organizations like them get destroyed or considered kooks.

Apart from you and Jack and a few others, it's pretty sad you can't get others down

your way to help out. Why, because perhaps, the powers that be, puts little attention

in conservation, and cuts more and more funding. The government can't make money

via conservation. But they sure can make big bucks with the bogus global warming.

E-Tests are just the beginning. There will be more and more cash grabs the government

will come up with to milk the masses.

Again I am talking Dan about the scam of global warming or climate change, not

pollution.

Best you do a little more home work about some of the things I posted Dan,

and perhaps you should put on a tin foil hat,

because you at times have a very narrow minded opinion,

and I wouldn't want to think those signals from Russia were dumbing you down

Isn't it fun how we can make fun like this

[Dan Andrews]

Dan I would never use the delete button on that post!

Why do you have such a hard time getting people helping out in your various ventures Dan.....

Because the powers that be, perhaps have a different agenda, and have convinced the

people that it's not important to be concerned about conservation and such. So much

so the government makes all kinds of cuts, which then proves to the masses that

conservation is not that important.

Ummmm........... you mean the Government is doing this

Thank you for the warning. I will wear my tinfoil hat during our next electrofishing outing.

[knightfisher]

Hey Dan, be sure to run a lead from the hat to the water, easiest way

to get a perm

Yeah some aspects of the government are still helping with conservation

and such, but with so many cuts, I wonder how long before this too gets

dwindled down

I have dealt with politicians both work wise and personally for various

things. Most will give you their time, but can't guarantee any results.

One in particular was an MP out of NOTL, and he quit that and later

became The Lord Mayor.

One thing he said to me which always stuck, was that when he first

got up to Ottawa, he was full of piss and vingar, ready to change the

country to the good

He told me that in very short order, he was told to sit down be quiet,

and just be ready to toll the party line.

He did what he could, got his time in and left, for city politics where

he could make a difference.

I still do work for him, and he is the only politician, that I have trusted.

Probably because he left

The way to get government to take notice of what the people want is

for the people to be heard.

But like your situation Dan, you can talk and get people's agreement

something should be done, but try and get them to commit and actually

do something.

ps: my viewpoint on the scam of global warming, is that it is caused by

CO2, which I verily disagree with. In the other post which I will adresss

you made some valid points.

[jwl]

...everyone knows it's aliens anyway

PS....Don't drink the Koolade at the next meeting

[Guest Rockfish]

...everyone knows it's aliens anyway

PS....Don't drink the Koolade at the next meeting

Good one Jack.

Here's proof that aliens have visited us, this was taken from the internet, so it must be true. If u believe this along with all the other conspiracy theories available on the internet, talk about being narrow minded and not seeing a bigger picture about the truth.

[knightfisher]

...everyone knows it's aliens anyway

Yes I know Jack I was just reading.....

[jwl]

either aliens or that tsunami that threw the earth off it's axis a bit of which at the time there where lots of theories that this would cause the earth's weather to change

[Dan Andrews]

Dan please don't tell me you've put your faith in Gary Boroughs! Call Louise Howe of the Niagara River Coalition and Gary's underhanded tactics he's used to keep the jet boats docked in town. I do agree that some of the members of that org are self serving residents but not Loise who's Mother was a famous environmentalist who got results for Love Canal and helped stop the dumping of tonnes of toxins into the Niagara River.

Gary also helped implement that bloody permit fishing for residents only on the property next to the jet boats. Gary is a poor steward of the environment. His loyalties lye with re-election campaign contributers like every other politician.

[knightfisher]

But Dan I have to tell ya..........

it's not Gary

The Ex MP and Lord Mayor I am talking about,

his name is Mike Dietsch. Very down to earth

[jwl]

last I checked, these aren't "your ideas" I clearly read in one of the threads somewhere that KF said he was a memeber of lots of different "conspiracy sites"...so I am pretty sure that ya'all are believing in someone else's ideas.....

I am sure there are plenty different versions of the old Chicken Little story that the sky is falling

[jwl]

so is it that the ones calling others "sheeple" for not conforming to thier ideals, and joining in with the so called masses...are in turn actually the "sheeple" for joining in on the band wagon that supports thier ideals on the other side of the coin with those masses ...well which is it

[bigugli]

kinda like a kid who doesn't want to give up the idea of Santa Claus.

Whaddaya mean there's no Santa! Next Christmas you might end up getting coal where the sun never shines