New Meters

[smerchly]

There's that word again ......another "smart" thing is coming to reduce electricity consumption . We can do the laundry at 3 am & save some $$ they say . It will cost each household about $150 ,& yes you will pay for the meters , all 53000 in St.Catharines . I'm sure we will hear about some new ways to save on hydro bills , like putting the fridge & freezer on a timer & shut off during peak hours & run them during the "cheap " times .It will be interesting to see how this "new ,state of the art - -smart -eco friendly / green, works out .......

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/Article....aspx?e=1458878

[Tom Chopin]

What's the rates now? says they will be 8 cents in peak, 4 cents in off time. Just curious.

[FishyWishy]

You know there aint nothin' for free.

It will make people more aware of the electricity they are using. And it will encourage peole to turn lights off during the day etc. Cool though about timers on your fridge and freezer. Just don't retreive anything out of them so you don't let the cold air out.

I had seen a show before about using Pay as you go meters, that you loaded with money and it counted down as you used electricity. Those meters rreally made the users aware of the electricity they were using as the results of using/or not using electricity were immediately noticed. Not this lets chage a few bulbs to CFL's and wait 2 months to see how it has effected our bill, kinda crap.

I replaced my furnace to a top-of-the-line Trane back in December and I am still waiting to see how it affected my gas bill. and when finally got a gas bill that should have reflected the change there was no actual reading taken that's 5 estimated usage months in a row! Estimated based on my old mid efficiency Furnace!

[knightfisher]

This is just another way for us consumers to be.....KY jelly comes to mind.

Because this is a necessity, of course the consumers will have to pay.

Look at the price of a barrel of oil, low,low,low, yet the price at the pumps up,up,up.

I posted the new rates about a year ago.

I would guess these rates have been updated since then.

Here they are again.

We are currently paying 5.6 for the first 1000kwh

and 6.5 for anything abouve 1000kwh

Summer Weekdays May1-Oct31

...................cents/KWh

7am-11am --- 7.1

11am-5pm --- 9.7

5pm-10pm --- 7.1

10pm-7am --- 3.4

Winter Weekdays Nov1-April 30

7am-11am --- 9.7

11am-5pm --- 7.1

5pm-8pm --- 9.7

8pm-10pm --- 7.1

10pm-7am --- 3.4

Weekend and holidays all day 3.4

Looking at the above rates it's so obvious that this has

absolutely nothing to do with saving money, but gouging

us at the times we need the service most.

Sickening just sickening.

Oh....did I mention the K-Y Jelly

[FishyWishy]

Looking at the above rates it's so obvious that this has

absolutely nothing to do with saving money, but gouging

us at the times we need the service.

I don't think you have given this a fair assessment.

The times do correspond to when we use electricity you are correct. In the winter they are higher at supper time ans breakfast time. This is called peak time, because that is when everyone is using electricity. In the summer it is highest during the hottest part of the day (AC usage).

Higher rates at peak times are to encourage less consumption. Turn your AC down or off. Use more efficient appliances to cook your meals (don't heat up a whole oven for 1 or 2 pieces of chicken) If they were just gouging as you state the rates would not be as low as 3.4 cents per kWh on weekends.

If the idea was to scew you they would have just raied the rates and forgone the meters.

My $0.02.

[knightfisher]

I don't think you have given this a fair assessment.

The times do correspond to when we use electricity you are correct. In the winter they are higher at supper time ans breakfast time. This is called peak time, because that is when everyone is using electricity. In the summer it is highest during the hottest part of the day (AC usage).

Higher rates at peak times are to encourage less consumption. Turn your AC down or off. Use more efficient appliances to cook your meals (don't heat up a whole oven for 1 or 2 pieces of chicken) If they were just gouging as you state the rates would not be as low as 3.4 cents per kWh on weekends.

If the idea was to scew you they would have just raied the rates and forgone the meters.

My $0.02.

You are correct fishywishy, my bad.

Just disregard what I posted.

[FishyWishy]

But I agree about the oil and gas companies...They are crooks. Look at the profits these companies keep posting.

[smerchly]

Well FW .... I have made some cuts in power use like getting a gas stove for the kitchen , use things like a toaster oven , micro wave & slow cooker & the BBQ to save $$$ . BUT .....when it's hot outside the cenrtral air is set at 75*F & it stays there & only comes on when it goes to 76*F . Same with the furnace which is a high efficiency ......it's set a 70*F & stays there for the cold weather . The electric dryer may soon be gas also . To me . it doesn't make any difference if I use 50KW per day at 2pm or 2am .....This will not change anything to help the environment .....All it does is cost more $$$ , and that's just another "cute" way they fool us to think we are doing something good . We have believed "them" for too long about a lot of things & look where we are today .....broke . Look for oil lamps to make a comeback ......

[Dan Andrews]

they'll be uping our sewer rates here in FE again soon. I seriously can't afford to wipe my A**

[smerchly]

they'll be uping our sewer rates here in FE again soon. I seriously can't afford to wipe my A**

Chills ....remember what I taught you......

"When it's yellow , let it mellow .....

When it's brown, flush it down "

[FishyWishy]

Smerch,

I agree to you it doesn't matter what time you use electricity. But how many have converted to using a gas stove, gas dryer, slowcooker, toaster oven, and BBQ like you have? I would guess it is the minority. After all there is a reason that supper time, when we all wakeup before dawn, and the hottest part of the day are the peak hours. That is when, everyone is using the stove/dishwasher/opening fridegs and freezers/turning on lights (supper in the winter is at dusk afterall) turning on lights in the am, running the coffee pot, making breakfast and finally running the AC.

I have added insulation (20") in my attic, all CFL bulbs (other than in the bathroom), upgraded to the Top-o-the-line Trane furnace with variable speed DC motor (far less electricity usage), set-back t-stat. Sill cooking with electric appliances, still electric dryer. (in fact the builder who built my house in '91 skimped on the incoming gas pipe, 3/4" and it will cost big $$$ if I want to cook with gas or go to a gas dryer ).

I don't think the focus of these meters is on the environment. The focus is on reducung demand during peak hours...reducing the requirement to purchase power from other producers...reducung the burden on our system that sees transformers failing and huge blackouts. The only environmental aspect is that the power purchased from our neighbours is mostly from coal burning facilities. It also costs the utility more to purchase power from independant power producers and from other juristictions during these peak hours, afterall it is peak time in the other juristictions too, and the rules of supply and demand will rule the prices the utility pays it's suppliers and in turn should also be passed on to the users of this premium priced electricity.

FW

[smerchly]

Re. peak hours, my largest elec. uses are the fridge & freezer & C.A.in the summer . They both come on at peak times as well as off peak times , so no change will occur there . The washer & elect dryer times can be changed but no thanks to doing laundry in the late hrs.

During the last decade here in Ontario & especially in Niagara , we have seen hundreds of large factories & manufacturing plants close down & many more shutting down every day ........This alone will cause a huge drop in electric demand & cause a shortage in consumption which cause rates to go UP ....and I think they found a way to "compensate " for the $ (revenue) lost ......It is the "Smart" meter .........

Tricked us again

I just read this in the Feedback section in the Standard.....and no , "Bill" is not me

I have to agree with this guy , & would like to add , if we harmonize the gst & pst , we can add another 8% to all of our utilitiy bills .....good thing we are getting nice raises at work.......

This seems to be wandering off topic (environment ) but I think we should look at what some of the reasons for these changes are , such as the costs we have to pay and also ,will we really achieve any real change .....I think not .......

Bill Me

Further to Hawes and Jay, we shouldn't be even using the government's own term, "smart meter", for this new green-shift-style meter - it is a hydro-suppressor/user-penalty device, being used to implement a grand, indirect tax grab. (a 15 year amortization on a $150 install charge...are you KIDDING, folks?!)

It's all about shifting our greenbacks into the pockets of the government-controlled utilities. Are you able to have supper at midnight, or breakfast at 5 am?

Neither Brian McMullan's council nor MPP Jim Bradley's Liberals care - this is what a green shift looks like, and their happy governments are the beneficiaries. They didn't think this out at all - they are more than willing to impose their will upon consumers, to force - yes, force - people to live a certain lifestyle. For many people, who by nature have always been energy conscious, this is yet another pile-on by a smug government.

The same political gang that builds overpriced under-performing wind mills and whines about coal power, can think of no way to increase available power; their answer, to compensate for their failures, is to force you to cook, clean your clothes and heat your house at night.

Hey, they point out, you can still do that during "normal" hours - you'll just have to pay through the nose: "more than twice" the off-peak price! Thanks, Jim Bradley. Thanks, Brian McMullan.

This is what happens when an arrogant, energy-incompetent provincial Liberal government meets a compliant 'green' mayor - their mutual agenda bulldozes your choices.

Will the municipalities be first installing meters on their own properties? How about the tens of thousands of government subsidized apartments in this province with flat-rate meters serving entire high-rises. What government-imposed social-behaviour-changes will be instituted there? Will we also start paying various prices for consumer items, depending upon which time of day we buy something? Will that electrically-powered subway ride to work in Toronto, at peak hours, cost riders twice as much as the non-available subway ride at 3am?! Will a cup of coffee cost less after midnight?

What the Standard's article didn't touch upon is that these new hydro-penalty meters wiil also allow utilities the ability to control your power use remotely. We can't have enough local radio-waves in our neighbourhoods, eh?

[Guest Troit]

This is just another way for us consumers to be.....KY jelly comes to mind.

Because this is a necessity, of course the consumers will have to pay.

Look at the price of a barrel of oil, low,low,low, yet the price at the pumps up,up,up.

I posted the new rates about a year ago.

I would guess these rates have been updated since then.

Here they are again.

We are currently paying 5.6 for the first 1000kwh

and 6.5 for anything abouve 1000kwh

Summer Weekdays May1-Oct31

...................cents/KWh

7am-11am --- 7.1

11am-5pm --- 9.7

5pm-10pm --- 7.1

10pm-7am --- 3.4

Winter Weekdays Nov1-April 30

7am-11am --- 9.7

11am-5pm --- 7.1

5pm-8pm --- 9.7

8pm-10pm --- 7.1

10pm-7am --- 3.4

Weekend and holidays all day 3.4

Looking at the above rates it's so obvious that this has

absolutely nothing to do with saving money, but gouging

us at the times we need the service most.

Sickening just sickening.

Oh....did I mention the K-Y Jelly

well said.......................can you say PATHETIC

exspecially when u have 3 girls in the familly

[FishyWishy]

Ontarians have long been paying the price for electricity in ways more than just on our bill. Ontario's billed cost for electricity is highly subsidized by the taxpayer, not the electrical consumer. As a demonstration of this take a look at this link. Not a single US State pays as little or less than Ontario does per kWh. Our closest neighbour pays 3 times what we do. This is who our province buys power from when we are at a deficit (as we are in peak hours, hot summer days etc.)

http://www.kaec.org/images/stand/0607_RateMap.pdf

I for one think that even if the rates were hiked it should be the responsibility of the consumer, not the taxpayer to pay for the electricity used. If I reduced my consumption and if I can offset my usage to off peak hours then why should I pay for those who refuse to do either?

[smerchly]

I agree those who use should pay like I do if I use the 407 . The prob.I have is.....we cannot change our usage at peak times with certain appliances like the fridge , freezer , furnace or a.c. unless we forget about using them when they are needed . And ,as I stated before , consumption is going down because the factories etc.are shutting down everywhere in Ontario . Maybe we have been getting off cheap & will have to start paying a lot more , but it will cause hardship at this time of severe unemployment & low pay jobs . I don't think the costs of installing these meters justifies the idea of saving electric power . I'd rather see a modest increase in rates which we can recoup with the latest techno. advances like the new light bulbs & energy efficient appliances . My meter is only 6 yrs .old & it's a waste to replace it again .They need to put this on hold until people are working again ........

[FishyWishy]

They need to put this on hold until people are working again ........

That is a reasonable statement, unless they are to use independant elecrical contractors to install these meters as that would create a few jobs. But this will probably be done by government employees who will have a job regardless of the economy.

But then again, I also think our governments need to lay off of the taxes on new vehicle purchases, that would be a better stimulus than giving the auto companies money. Give the money to the consumer to spur an economy not to the twits who ran the goodship lollypop ashore. Because if people ain't buying it doesn't matter how much money you pour into a failing company. But that would be a different debate.

[knightfisher]

well said.......................can you say PATHETIC

exspecially when u have 3 girls in the familly

Thanks Troit, and yes totally PATHETIC.

Many people are not aware that up to 80% of the hydro produced at the Adam Beck plant in Niagara Falls goes to the states. Yes we are on the same grid, but we have to buy the hydro back from the States when our demands require it.

Makes absolutely no sense to supply the States with our hydro, when we are asked to cut back.

But then it's about making money, and more money.

The electricity networks of Canada and the United States are heavily integrated. In 2006, Canada exported 41.5 Bkwh of electricity to the United States while importing 23.4 Bkwh. Over the past ten years, Canadian imports of electricity from the U.S. have increased ten-fold, while exports have remained relatively constant.

Again it's a total scam. Ever since the utility went private, of course we pay more.

Why's that you ask. The new owners are in the business of making money.

How many people have you had knocking on your door trying to get you to sign a contract with their company for a fixed hydro or gas rate. Money, make money and contract more money. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Also unknown to many is that the smart meter can read surges that our motors cause, where that be the washing machine or fridge whatever. The stupid meters with moving dials and such miss alot and are less accurate as they age. That alone will cause higher rates.

This was in a paper in West Va. a few days ago.

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Appalachian Power customers in West Virginia could see a significant hike in their electric bills later this year.

The company is asking the West Virginia Public Service Commission for approval to raise rates by 43-percent.

Because the government bought into this privatization crap of our utilities, the consumer is getting it up the .....need some KY ?

The smart meters have nothing to do with supply and demand.

That's the red herring people.

The smart meters will measure every bit of electricity we use, with nothing missed.

And if you don't pay your bill, or they need juice else where, they can control it from

there office with a push of a button.

The utilities know most people are going to use close to the same amount of juice.

The corporations that now own the utilities KNOW that these are necessities of life,

and are going to continue to milk us for all they can.

[knightfisher]

Silly me I omitted an important aspect to our gouging hydro bills.

The delivery charge, regulatory charge and debt retirement charge,

are on top of the electricity usage charge.

And if you ever calculated the additional charges, you will find on

average these charges work out to at least 100% of the usage charge,

more like 110%.

So if you look at your bill and it states usage was say $80.00, then

listed below that will show additional charges adding up to about $85.00.

And don't forget the gst on top of that. And added to that, if the gst/pst

are combined as being sought after by our government, add an extra 8%.

[jwl]

do what my sister did, just never be home when they go to put the new meter in.....she still doesn't have a water meter

[MacD]

You don't have to be home to change the hydro meter, they also don't have to shut off the power. I had mine replaced last year, my bill rarely exceeds $80, perhaps they thought something was wrong with it. All they did was unclamp the old meter, remove it, and then install the new meter. It only took a couple of minutes and the guy was gone.

[Dan Andrews]

Took about 30 seconds at my house.