Dan Andrews Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 http://niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1506568 A few names come to mind when I think of how ludicrous the animal rights movement really is when it comes to dealing with these animals. Leslie Sampson says these animals pose no danger to us and as long as we follow some basic common sense is followed, we can live in harmony. Well she got half of it right. We need to keep a tight lid on our garbage and keep our pets indoors and never feed these creatures. The part she screwed up on royally was that we don't need to hunt or manage them. Barbara Greenwood played right into her hands. At least they asked Al Oleksuik for information for the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Link not working. Figures, it's 'Canoe' 'Article not found' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 i live in coyote country and hear them nightly... in over 15 years never had a single issue with them, lots of babies and white suburban dogs runnin around... anytime ive seen them while im walking around they just bolt of keep at least 20m back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 http://niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1506568 Here try again. JayB your right but the overpopulation is being forced into suburbia where the laws change. Children are being approached by growling coyotes and adults are having a hard time chasing them away. Their behavior is changing in this setting and its only a matter of time. Dogs and cats are starting to get attacked in greater frequencies. There aren't near as many coyote hunters as there used to be and a new bigger strain is evolving and its behavior is tamer, less fearful of humans. People like Sampson are going one step further and approaching town Councils in defence of coyotes and asking Councils to expand no fire zones for these poor creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeBaggin Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Not only are they a problem for people and their pets, they also pose a serious threat to the deer populations as well. They are notorious for running deer to death! Why don't they have a controlled shoot, a draw of some sorts where you can take an animal or two. In designated areas of course! Another thing Chilli is I am curious, you may not be able to discharge a firearm in certain areas, but what about a compound bow? I don't hunt and if this post was stupid then ignore it! Thanks RoeBaggin P.S. What bothered me in the write up was that farmers can reclaim monies for lost stock. Is there actually a budget put aside for this? Seems to me that controlling them will be a better solution in the long run. For farmers and people alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Coyotes are definitley a problem! Just ask any farmer that raises small types of livestock. I,ve rasied goats for a few years and let me tell ya, they do go after anything small enough to carry away! I know a farmer down the road who has also lost sheep to them! I,ve also seen them runnin away with one of my barn cats sqwirming in thier mouth!! If anyone believes that theres no coyote problem in Niagara, I got some ocean front property for sale in Wainfleet!! Maybe they,ll believe that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Not only are they a problem for people and their pets, they also pose a serious threat to the deer populations as well. They are notorious for running deer to death! Why don't they have a controlled shoot, a draw of some sorts where you can take an animal or two. In designated areas of course! Another thing Chilli is I am curious, you may not be able to discharge a firearm in certain areas, but what about a compound bow? I don't hunt and if this post was stupid then ignore it! Thanks RoeBaggin P.S. What bothered me in the write up was that farmers can reclaim monies for lost stock. Is there actually a budget put aside for this? Seems to me that controlling them will be a better solution in the long run. For farmers and people alike. correct me if im wrong but arnt deer grosley over populated in southern ontario? and yes the govt will subsidise you if your livestock is taken by wild animals. it stops the farmers from killing mass amounts of animals in prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Coyotes are definitley a problem! Just ask any farmer that raises small types of livestock. I,ve rasied goats for a few years and let me tell ya, they do go after anything small enough to carry away! I know a farmer down the road who has also lost sheep to them! I,ve also seen them runnin away with one of my barn cats sqwirming in thier mouth!! If anyone believes that theres no coyote problem in Niagara, I got some ocean front property for sale in Wainfleet!! Maybe they,ll believe that too! i deffinitally hear what your sayin but dont coyote's have a right to eat too? it would be nice to tell them what they can and cant eat, but like any wild predator it goes after the food with the least amount of energy wasted. it just happens to be that barn animals are low in defense and penned in. there just tryin to survive like the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyWishy Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If only you could have the coyotes only prey on the overpopulated deer. Then the 2 might eventually balance each other out... however in the process you would eventually have a starving over population of coyotes, and probably an underpopulation of deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If only you could have the coyotes only prey on the overpopulated deer. Then the 2 might eventually balance each other out... however in the process you would eventually have a starving over population of coyotes, and probably an underpopulation of deer. then the deer re-bound because the coyote's starve and lower their #'s! its so cool how planet earth has a great way of making everything balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham&eggs Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have a ?.How do they determine overpopulation.I see lots of coyotes around but how do I know theres too many.Also could it be with there habitat shrinking that they are just becoming more visible.I,m no expert but see lots of bush year after year being being flattened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTine Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If you want a healthy deer and turkey population, kill all the yotes you can. Our hunting group does a couple push's for these yotes on out hunting properties, we will usually drill around 6 of them everytime. We noticed a lot more deer and turkey now and a lot less bones and feathers found! After the run in I had last year with yotes tracking a downed deer with my bow at night, I want them all gone! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have a ?.How do they determine overpopulation.I see lots of coyotes around but how do I know theres too many.Also could it be with there habitat shrinking that they are just becoming more visible.I,m no expert but see lots of bush year after year being being flattened this is purely skeptical but when i watch wildlife shows on discovery channel they trap and tag animals and then record the number of new animals vs the number of re-trapped animals and they come up with figures from that. but like i said, purley skeptical. and i agree with u, less habitat means they are being pushed into tighter spaces and are more likely to be spotted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If you want a healthy deer and turkey population, kill all the yotes you can. Our hunting group does a couple push's for these yotes on out hunting properties, we will usually drill around 6 of them everytime. We noticed a lot more deer and turkey now and a lot less bones and feathers found!After the run in I had last year with yotes tracking a downed deer with my bow at night, I want them all gone! Matt lets not forget that the coyote is the top predator around here. as we have seen all to commonly what happens to an ecosystem when the top predator is removed everything collapses. deer and birds will expand their populations then suffer and die in the winter when there isnt anough food, disease will spread. we have already removed one top predator from here.. the cougar! something needs to keep the herbavours in check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeBaggin Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Jay if the deer overpopulate then the government issues more tags. I would rather see more deer and have the ability to control them through hunting. You are forgetting that we are the top predator around here. LOL!!! RoeBaggin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 The MNR IS adding more deer tags every year! Well first of all your NEVER going to remove the coyote. In fact if we didn't hunt them we'd have a real serious problem on our hands. The numbers shot so far this year have already been reported well over 100 in Niagara alone. Imagine if these hunters suddenly just threw in the towel. Whoa! However, an over population can usually be determined by an outbreak of disease. Ya that's the way Sampson would rather see it. Leave the dam coyotes alone so they can spread disease and suffer a horrible death instead. I would love to see a pack of coyotes take down a deer. I have no problem with a self sustaining natural balance. I would prefer it. Anyone who believes that by leaving the coyotes alone it will balance the growing deer population should go to disney land because that giant dog named goofy is the real thing. If only it were that easy. Development definitely plays a factor. Not only does it squeeze coyotes into smaller areas but it forces them into urban environments which are no fire zones and no bows are not allowed because they are classed as a firearm. Our local coyote Guru Leslie Sampson has asked Councils to help the poor coyotes by expanding no fire zones and then acts astonished when someone suggests she is anti hunting. We have a problem now. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Stopping the hunt would be a serious miscalculation. I will agree with the anti's on a few key points. Keep your dam cats indoors, tight lid on the can and don't leave pet food outside. The more food they can find in the neighbourhood, the more time they are going to spend there. We are not going to cull them out of urban areas. no one has suggested that. Professionals may help a bit with leg hold traps but coyotes are smarter than that and have the numbers to keep right on coming. The only beef I have with any of the news I read is when these stupid tree huggers try to interfere with the hunt. Your slitting some kids throat because it won't be long after the hunting is disabled that it's going to happen. And the way the anti's are working over and joining our decision makers and animal welfare organizations, I'll never rule out an end to the hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 This is a good thread , lots of input on both sides . I don't like the idea of annialating any species of animal life !! That includes dogs like I have which the govt wrongly deems vicious ....an outright lie to get votes . I agree with Ham & Eggs , every year, many acres of bush land is turned into housing . The people who buy these houses then want to get rid of the animals they don't like & also complain of the bad smell coming from a farm across the way ! Looking far into the future , the Niagara area ,from lake to lake will be solid slob-urbia & the deer & the antilope will play no more. They call it "progress" . The coyote deserves a little space in the scheme of whats left in our wildlife in this area ,just as a rattle snake or field mouse has......If a farmer is having problems with coyotes on his land , by all means he should have the right to bring out the 12 gauge etc.......Live & let live... to a point , we are the top dog on the block & have the ability to "manage" our resourses ...but not play God & destroy ANY species out of existance !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Farmers also have to ensure they're disposing of their mortalities (deadstock ) properly. Dead chickens on a manure pile spells dead sheep next door. We're all a little responsible for the problems of out of balance numbers. when you keep making a mess you have to keep cleaning it up. Another way to tell coyotes are overpopulated? The body count. If numbers are down, hunting just isn't as successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 we are the top dog on the block & have the ability to "manage" our resourses ...but not play God & destroy ANY species out of existance !! couldnt have said it better! i believe the newest term on the block is called sustaniable development when i hear people talk about destroying anything they dont like im reminded of the devistation that our planet took in the last century with mass hunting of species like whales, buffalo, cougars, and right now the newest fight in the seas is sharks! one documentary i seen a few weeks back est that 90% of the sharks are gone due to the illigal acts of shark fin soup! lets learn from our mistakes of the past and manage our resources responsibilty cause like smerchly said were not god, once something is gone, its gone we cant just pick and choose who gets to stay on earth. every animal down to the smallest mosquito is a vital part of makin the world go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 This thread isn't about extirpation though. It's about control. We all admit we can't eliminate the coyote and I don't know anyone who wants to! We have learned from our past mistakes. Management is regulated like never before. Hunters bring restrictions in upon themselves. I myself had part in having a walleye season brought into FMZ 16 because up until 2 years ago, it never closed. Wild turkey were brought back by hunters on the condition that they would be managed. This means you hunt when numbers returned and stop hunting if numbers get low. We're preaching to the converted here. We see the whale population down along with their food source. A buffalo reintroduction sounds interesting but forget about cougars. No one in today's society hunter or ARA will accept that risk. However seals are high in numbers and need to be harvested and people who depend on the annual seal hunt to feed their families want those numbers managed so they're always accessible. some would have you believe these families want to wipe the seals of the earth. Ludicrous. JayB I think you and me think allot more alike than it might appear to some. In fact most hunters think the way you do. The past centuries hunters/developers and societies in general made the mistakes and we've learned from it. No one wishes to remove any species from earth. We all just want to optimize what we have and manage the imbalances we bring and in allot of cases, bring back what we can't. If you want a real partner to help with restoration projects, join a hunt club. Hell 2 years ago Port Colborne built tern nesting beds on the breakwall. It was allot of time, money and effort for a bird no one hunts. That's because we care about all living things, even the ones we don't eat. No one wants to kill every coyote. Just control their numbers to an acceptable level. A sustainable number where it doesn't grossly exceed the bush's carrying capacity. I Love seeing coyotes and the fact that they're starting to be viewed as a nuisance animal is sad. If their numbers were at a sustainable number, it would be considered real treat to have an opportunity to watch one rather than shoot one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 when the coyote's are killed do u eat them? pardon my ignorance but im not much of a hunter, ive been a few times bird hunting with my dog to see if she was a good candidite for a hunting dog but thats it. seems to be killing is exteme, ive read in other parts of canada and north america they are taking a different approach, adult male wolves in yellowstone park are being captured and nutered. this is a great way to conserve cause if the alpha male and female are the only ones to breed, well not much will get done! can anyone tell me if a coyote pack runs the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Please call me when your ready to try and capture a coyote. I will neuter it myself and release this beautiful creature. If you can capture it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Please call me when your ready to try and capture a coyote. I will neuter it myself and release this beautiful creature. If you can capture it. lol lets get mantracker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I stand corrected. The bio at the OFAH stands by these facts and is counseling me at this moment or should I say debriefing me about common myths and misconceptions about coyote control. I directed them to the coyote watch propaganda page and after they straightened out the propaganda errors, they settled on these facts. Shooting coyotes somehow increases the population. http://www.greycounty.ca/agriculture/Coyot...r%20posting.pdf The coyote broad was taken for granted because of her attempts to ban hunting through no discharge bylaws but apparently she makes some valid points. I promote fact so I concede to the OFAH's bio's legitimizing of the above document. I still owe Leslie Sampson 5 coyotes though. No you can't eat them and I've never desired to kill them before. Guess her dishonest approach to protecting them brought out the worst in me. That's on her conscience now. I've already paid for the shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I saw one today in Burlington. I was leaving Fairview St and onto the QEW and it was right on the side of the road less than 100 ft from a parked tow truck. This was less than 100 yards from the light on Fairview. It only had a few small patches of it's winter coat left. Pretty scraggly lookin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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