little cleo Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I have been pondering this ever since my neighbour gave me a jar of pickled pike this summer.. Very yummy! If you pickle fish, do they count towards your possession limit? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I would say yes . Pickled , smoked , dehydrated ,fried , doesn't matter . ....unless it's commercial bought. oops ...a little edit ......If a neighbour gives you a few jars of pike and you had your limit in the freezer ....I haven't got a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Hmmm. Interesting question. Since the pickled fish is already "prepared for consumption," I suppose the argument could be made that it isn't part of the limit. But I'd err on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Very interesting question none the less, but why would one worry about a situation like this, it's not like the MNR is going door to door checking freezers or fridges. That would be like asking if you purchased 6 walleye fillets at Sobeys and placed them in the freezer would you be over your limit if you only have a conservation license. Interested in seeing other peoples replys on this...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captnn Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Very interesting question none the less, but why would one worry about a situation like this, it's not like the MNR is going door to door checking freezers or fridges. That would be like asking if you purchased 6 walleye fillets at Sobeys and placed them in the freezer would you be over your limit if you only have a conservation license.Interested in seeing other peoples replys on this...... You don't have to have a license to buy fish. Buy all you want . If you have a license to fish and keep fish which you caught at home save your receipt for the fish you bought. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I have wondered also about people who buy walleye from the natives . Can you bring home an over possession limit legally ? I don't think you get a receite & some fish could be in a slot size etc. No prob. buying from a store ,but in this case a neighbour/friend etc. is a different scenario . It would be very rare for a CO to check out ones freezer for limits etc. unless you have been charged with an offence like poaching .....then you could be in trouble with the "rest" of your booty ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Isn't your neighbours limit? He caught prepared and gifted you the fish right? Hurry up and eat it so he can catch another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 While true that the question is largely academic, the fact is that it is these very sorts of "notional" cases that are discussed in law schools and in philosophy of law classes in universities. These sorts of discussions are important since regardless of what the law in question is, there are situations that will fall into a "grey" area. Ronald Dworkin, a prominent philospher specializing in law discusses these "grey area" cases, which he calls "penumbral cases." One of his most famous theoretical "case studies" involved a notional town that had a by-law prohibiting wheeled vehicles in public parks. A veterans group applied to erect a monument in the park, but the monument would involve a WWII era Jeep. The strict interpretation of the law would prohibit the monument as proposed, but that same strict interpretation in this case would not be in keeping with the intent of the law. How to resolve it? Now in terms of fishing. . . suppose I'm fishing in an area that has a 10" minimum for trout. I hook a 10 1/2" trout and as I'm reeling it in, the fish is attacked by a pike that bites off 3/4" of its tail. Now the fish is 1/4" under the legal limit. . . does the limit apply here? This is one of those "penumbral cases" where a strict interpretation does not meet the intent of the law. I think discussing topics of this sort and in this fashion is a most useful pursuit. If nothing else it will sharpen our debating skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Now that's putting the "gray " area into perspective Coachman ! So , if I catch a 18.25" walleye which is about .33" too long , I can snip the tail off .5" if I am hungry ! Better I actually "bite" the tail off to make my case is more presentable ! The summary we get for the fishing/hunting regs are just an outline of the regs. & the grey area is a "phone book" in comparison . Many instances are open for lawyers or Yale scholars to decifer , ha ha . But as you stated , it all makes for good discussion on any fishing board . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 I don't mean to bring this subject off course alittle but considering were talking about gray areas I have a question for you guy's. I was fishing the Gravenhurst Wharf this weekend as I do every weekend ( I live up here) and I was talking with one of the locals that had an encounter with a CO 2 weekends back, he was using live bait (chub) that he caught himself out of a local stream in the area, the CO told him that it was illegal to catch bait fish with out a license. The local only had 7 chub and fined him $150.00 + made him dump his bucket. If this is illegal then wouldn't picking your own worms on your only perm be the same thing. Please tell me that this CO is full of S&%T. I couldn't believe it when this guy was telling me, he still had the fine in his pocket. Any input on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEdge Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 I don't mean to bring this subject off course alittle but considering were talking about gray areas I have a question for you guy's. I was fishing the Gravenhurst Wharf this weekend as I do every weekend ( I live up here) and I was talking with one of the locals that had an encounter with a CO 2 weekends back, he was using live bait (chub) that he caught himself out of a local stream in the area, the CO told him that it was illegal to catch bait fish with out a license. The local only had 7 chub and fined him $150.00 + made him dump his bucket. If this is illegal then wouldn't picking your own worms on your only perm be the same thing. Please tell me that this CO is full of S&%T. I couldn't believe it when this guy was telling me, he still had the fine in his pocket. Any input on this one? Hardly an expert, but I have read the regs book we get close enough to know a bit about live bait. Live bait (in the form of fish or other aquatic animals [crawfish]), the regulations restrict the collection of live bait to only Ontario residents in possession of a recreational fishing license. Meeting these requirements, one may possess no more than 120 bait fish. Now, my understanding (and a good assumption to follow, I think) is that includes any combination of allowable bait fish, as long as the overall number in possession does not exceed 120. If he was in possession of more than 120 bait fish, perhaps the CO could hold him to the fine because he had more bait than is allowable on a recreational license. However, seeing as he had 7 chubs (which I believe are listed in the book as allowed for bait, correct me if I'm wrong), he may have a case against the CO. But that's entirely up to the person who received the fine. I know this because, being a non-resident with a conservation license, I've memorized so much of the book, just so I know what I can and can't get away with myself. It's also caused me to question what's not listed in the book. For instance, I'm not allowed to use a net to catch my own minnows. However, I am allowed to catch chubs with a rod and reel, and use them as bait. The restriction to Ontario residents applies only to the specific use of nets for catching bait. Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 He must have been fishing without a license. You need a fishing license to catch bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieWalleye Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 WELL--what was the ? As far as i'm concerned-when you leave the water for the day-what you have- is your posession-so know your limit. If someone else gives you extra-whats wrong with that?? The CO's will have to catch you in the illegal act to make it stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briguy Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 the CO told him that it was illegal to catch bait fish with out a license. The local only had 7 chub and fined him $150.00 + made him dump his bucket. if he has a fishing licence then he can catch his own bait, if he fights it bring up the fact that the co made him release the baitfish in water other then that caught in which is also against the law to the origional question I would say that they wouldnt count against your limit but your best bet is to give the MNR a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 if he has a fishing licence then he can catch his own bait, if he fights it bring up the fact that the co made him release the baitfish in water other then that caught in which is also against the lawto the origional question I would say that they wouldnt count against your limit but your best bet is to give the MNR a call The bait is actually catch in the same body of water as which he was fishing, we all get our chub from a little feeder creek that flows out of the Gravenhurst Bay. As for not having a license, I couldn't answer that, he seems like a decent guy that would follow the rules but who knows. Thanks for the info guy's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scapulataf Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Don't know if this will add anything of value, but shore lunch counts towards your daily possession limits. But I think that having pickled fish in your house would be included. The possession limits are daily, not seasonal. So if you catch a fish that has a daily possesion limit of 10 fish and then you catch that limit every day for 10 days, thats obviously 10,000 fish. If a CO were to knock on your door, and ask to look in your freezer, I guess you would have to explain that you caught those 100 fish over the course of 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEdge Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Don't know if this will add anything of value, but shore lunch counts towards your daily possession limits. But I think that having pickled fish in your house would be included. The possession limits are daily, not seasonal. So if you catch a fish that has a daily possesion limit of 10 fish and then you catch that limit every day for 10 days, thats obviously 10,000 fish. If a CO were to knock on your door, and ask to look in your freezer, I guess you would have to explain that you caught those 100 fish over the course of 10 days. I believe that would work, based on what they consider to be "possession". Fish filleted and in your freezer are in your possession. I'd make sure to read over the regs closer, because I'm almost sure you have a daily/possession combination. That being, I have a conservation license, my daily limit of bass is two, my possession limit is two. So if I had three bass in my freezer, should a CO come to call, I'd have to explain why there was one more fish in my possession than there should be. Now, if, say, the possession limit actually applies to catch fish not ready to be eaten (shore lunch not withstanding), then perhaps you have found a loop hole. But that does raise a question. If you catch two bass, eat them for lunch, do you have to wait 24 hours before you can catch more, to ensure they're out of your system? I may be splitting hairs with this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 What if you eat nothing but fish and then crap in a bag and keep it. Does it still count towards your limit or will a CO make you release it in water or on the shore Can't believe this topic is still going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scapulataf Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 But I think that having pickled fish in your house would be included. Oops. I think that was supposed to say I don't think that would be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEdge Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 What if you eat nothing but fish and then crap in a bag and keep it. Does it still count towards your limit or will a CO make you release it in water or on the shore Can't believe this topic is still going The hair gets split a little more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 From the current regulations: "The catch limit is the number of fish you are allowed to catch and keep in one day, and includes fish that are retained for any period of time and any fish eaten or given away. The possession limit is the number you are allowed to have in your possession on hand, in cold storage, in transit or anywhere. Possession limits are the same as one day's catch limit except where otherwise specified." So strictly speaking, the fish in your freezer count as part of your limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Exactly Coachman . I have about 20 perch fillets in my freezer (10 perch) which is 2 meals for us . That means I can catch & keep (C & K) another 40 perch if I had a good fishing day . But , can I go fishing the next day & bring home 50 more perch .....for my wife who is also over 65 ? That would be the legal limit for both of us . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEdge Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Bending the rules, Smerch! I can't say the same thought hasn't crossed my mind. My wife and I both have conservation licenses, so that's a total of 4 bass between us. So that means I can catch up to four, and she claims two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth11 Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Now here's something to consider. One does not require a licence to receive fish as a gift - so why would a gift of pickled fish count towards your licence limits? I agree cause if you dont got a licence than tech it wont count towards your limit, so I think if its a gift than dont count it, if anything it counts towards the gift givers limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scapulataf Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Actually the possesion limits are at any given time. if your possesion limit is 4 walleye, and you already have four in the freezer then you can't bring another four home a week later until you eat up some of the first four!Now here's something to consider. One does not require a licence to receive fish as a gift - so why would a gift of pickled fish count towards your licence limits? Well, I'll be damned. I had no idea. You are the Natural Resources Law grad. I guess its good that I don't keep my fish anyway, but if I ever do, its nice to be informed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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