Blatant Attack On Our Fishing Rights. Martindale Pond Access Denied‏

[sooner]

Just got an email from the mayor.

Good Afternoon Mr. Webb,

Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention. I want to clarify that City staff was not aware that these boulders have been placed along the water’s edge on Henley Island. It was not until I was alerted by several members of the kayaking/canoeing community that I started looking into the issue. I apologize for any upset this has caused to you.

Henley Island is leased to the Canadian Henley Rowing Corporation by the City and they in turn collect user fees from the various Rowing Clubs who use the island and the facilities for their rowers. I have learned from Mr. Jim Minards, a board member of the CHRC who is also associated with the St. Catharines Rowing Club, that he had been involved with the arrangements to have the boulders placed due to safety concerns along the water. When speaking to Mr. Minards I made it very clear that it was inappropriate to act on a decision which blocks public access to the water without pursuing the proper approvals and permissions.

My office will be arranging a meeting with the appropriate parties for mid August to discuss how to rectify this situation to the satisfaction of all. Included will be representation from City staff and ward councillors, the Canadian Henley Rowing Corporation, the rowing club as well as representation the canoeing/kayaking community.

Once again, I appreciate you bringing this to my attention and I look forward to coming to discussing the matter further in the coming weeks.

Best regards,

Brian

Brian McMullan

Mayor

City of St. Catharines

I got the same letter from Mr. McMullan. I have sent a response that I find Mr. Minards claim of putting bolder's in place for safety reason's not to be realistic as the rowers have been approaching fisherman/canoes/kayaks and telling them they cannot have they're water vessels on the pond.

I also asked for this to be brought fourth in the August meeting.

[JoeSchmoe]

As a former long-time member of the St Catharines Rowing Club, I can say there was definitely a "this is our pond" attitude amongst the elite in the rowing community...

Politics and egos, infighting, and all the like run rampant down there which is why I will never return. Cowboy moves like this go on down there all the time. Unfortunately, its just usually inter-club related conflict. It was too bad, because there were a lot of nice people I came to know over the years, but dealing with the bad eggs was simply too much. I'm not alone on this either.

Personally I always thought it was cool seeing kayakers and canoers down there... but you hardly ever saw them, and they always stayed WAY out of your way. I always thought it was way underfished too, based on the size.

How could anyone ever claim safety as being a reason for the boulders too?

[Horrorshowrot]

Safety big boulders my arse think of how many kids will take a digger climbing over some of them.

[YakFisher]

One thing I don't understand is why the mayor needs to have a sit down. The rowing club put the boulders down illegally, they should be fined, then told to move them at their expense or sent the bill once it is done. If it was any other private citizen that altered public land in this manner, they would have the book thrown at them.

This is just another example of how people and organizations with a little influence and a lot of cash can pretty much do what they want

[scapulataf]

I realize there are a lot of bad feelings regarding this, and the first thought is "lets stick it to them". I would like to at least suggest that before this happens, you guys calm down and think about it. Yes, it seems as though what they were doing was solely to keep fishermen out of the pond, as well as kayakers and canoeists, not for the actual "safety" of anyone but because "they own it". But before any of you decide that it should be reported to the MNR, MOE or DFO, you may want to wait just for a little bit. If/when the city decides to have the boulders removed we should leave it at that. Trying to get the book thrown at them could leave all the excuses in the world for the rowing club to try and close the pond off in the future through legal means. If you guys are getting a few people to go to this meeting thats going to happen between the city and the rowing club, you should try and work with the people of the club, not just for the benefit of the fishermen, and paddlers, but also the general public. As people with brains, it seems blatantly obvious that when we're paddling around the pond we should give the rowers a wide berth but not necessarily so for other people. So instead of yelling and screaming, maybe the group representing us should take some initiative and suggest that signs be put at access points telling people to stay out of the way of the rowers while they are practicing or competing. I know that they seem like a bunch of elitist snobs, but they just might be rational humans as well, and realize that if we're willing to work together then it could act as a sufficient deterrent to them in the future lobbying to have fences put up at all access points.

Just my 2 cents.

[corey]

I realize there are a lot of bad feelings regarding this, and the first thought is "lets stick it to them". I would like to at least suggest that before this happens, you guys calm down and think about it. Yes, it seems as though what they were doing was solely to keep fishermen out of the pond, as well as kayakers and canoeists, not for the actual "safety" of anyone but because "they own it". But before any of you decide that it should be reported to the MNR, MOE or DFO, you may want to wait just for a little bit. If/when the city decides to have the boulders removed we should leave it at that. Trying to get the book thrown at them could leave all the excuses in the world for the rowing club to try and close the pond off in the future through legal means. If you guys are getting a few people to go to this meeting thats going to happen between the city and the rowing club, you should try and work with the people of the club, not just for the benefit of the fishermen, and paddlers, but also the general public. As people with brains, it seems blatantly obvious that when we're paddling around the pond we should give the rowers a wide berth but not necessarily so for other people. So instead of yelling and screaming, maybe the group representing us should take some initiative and suggest that signs be put at access points telling people to stay out of the way of the rowers while they are practicing or competing. I know that they seem like a bunch of elitist snobs, but they just might be rational humans as well, and realize that if we're willing to work together then it could act as a sufficient deterrent to them in the future lobbying to have fences put up at all access points.

Just my 2 cents.

The pond is crown land... I can't see them being able to deny the public access. It would have to be a safety thing if they did and at that point it would be unsafe for them as well. Here's a little blurb about who owns the pond... we all do.

Ownership: Martindale Pond is considered Crown land and therefore Federally owned property. The city of St. Catharines has expressed interest in acquiring this land. Before this occurs a Property Transfer Assessment must be completed. This assessment determines the environmental condition of the property. The St. Lawrence Sea Way authority originally had jurisdiction of the property who in turn transfered the land in 1974 to Public Works Canada, now known as Public Works and Government Services Canada.

[midas69er]

Wow this has really gone a long way, just saw a peice on this come up on my Twitter feed, and wow I have to agree, the people who are well offare trying to flex thier muscles again. Trying to dictate who can play in a public area and the rules in which you can play. "You can boat here as long as you can get around our huge boulders and can go as fast as we can and go in the same direction as we do and we are not going to be careful not to hit you so you better stay the hell out of our way, cause you know they "would hate for someone to get injured, you know we do row backwards". Talk about someone so out of touch with reality that he would allow that comment to go to print. As if they are the most important people on the water. This doesn't affect me directly, however after reading the story in the Niagara Falls Review, I had to comment. Good Luck!!!

[Jason15]

I like the fact that they are saying that it;s a sudden interest in canoe/kayaking although i've seen that down there as long as I can remember. They also seem to be digging themselves a big hole for trying to solve this themselves(money doesn't fix everything)

[meatface]

Just sent an email off to the MPP for the area as well, Jim Bradley. Looking to get one off the Dykstra as well. I talked to the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority about altering shoreline, as I have discovered it is their jurisdiction, not the MNR or MOE. The woman did inform me that there was paperwork that had gone though her office about changes on Henley Island. She told me that the only time that the MNR has and involvement is when changes could impact habitat, and more importantly at risk species.

I do agree that we need to keep our cool, otherwise we could end up with a situation that is worse than it is already. I am proposing that we get some people from the community together to make calm reasonable approaches to correcting this situation in the short term and the long term.

By short term I mean that we try to regain the access on Henley Island. But if we go at it like a bull in a china shop we may do ourselves more harm than good. Protest may be a good idea as long as it is done without interfering in the activities of the rowing club, as this would just give them more reason to try and have us banned from the island all together. I do have some ideas and would encourage anyone that is interested to PM me and we can discuss it.

In the long term I think we should be lobbying the city to either put a small dock for us to use on the island, or give us permission to put one ourselves. We could also ask for a garbage can at our launching area and to have signage put up encouraging paddlers to keep clean of the rowers. This should counter the issues that the club supposedly has.

If anyone is interested in getting together and having a meeting about this please PM me. I would be interested in working with some other motivated individuals to make both short and long term gains.

Meatface

[paul]

Just a thought, but during this hearing that's going to be held in mid-August would it be worthwhile raising the issue of actually improving access to the back areas? I'm thinking specifically of the JC Park access spot where you're trying to get into a canoe of kayak in fairly deep water right of the shore.

Meatface, you posted as I was typing

[dr_feelgood]

Has the St. Catharines Game and Fish been informed? Maybe they can send letters?

[smerchly]

Take a close look at JC Park . The water current is strong as it enters the last stretch before entering the power station .....too risky for paddlers in my opinion . The old road at the Green Ribbon Trail could be opened to the water so vehicles could park there , but it's narrow ....not much room to turn around . Rennie Park is where the rowers end their races , too crowded for both canoeists & yaks , The Henley Is. launch is the best spot of all .

[rickyy33]

From the article in the paper, sounds like Minard has it set in his mind that he owns the pond. Guy sounds like a real joke

[blairwelsh]

Sounds like all the Right “Ears” are being opened.

At this point, a lot of “innuendo, hearsay and speculation” is what is driving most people’s “Fear”.

Thus the “Knee Jerk Reactions” - on both sides.

The Rowing Club was simply acting with their own best interests.

Acknowledging their concerns is very important. No one likes to be TOLD what to do!

People in general, are more apt to going back to “business at hand”.

When things are CLARIFIED, there is less a chance of a misunderstanding.

It is a DISCUSSION with meaningful results, not a “War or Battle”.

When two “opposing parties” have differences of opinions ... they should COMPROMISE and bring about a mutual agreement.

I would recommend:

1. Restoring the Access at Henley (maybe even some improvements)

2. Posting of a “Courtesy Sign” ( indicating safe procedures ensuring “right of way” for the Rowing group & public)

3. Implement GARBAGE CANs

4. Safe Parking Zone

As long as the Rowing Club is happy, and as long as the Public has Access then the PROBLEM is no longer a PROBLEM ... it’s a SOLUTION.

A simple one at that!

· Many local “Sign Companies” would be more than open to help out.

· Many Volunteers are more than happy to assist in Clean Up and minor restoration

I'm sure the City can provide the Garbage Cans & Pick UP.

The rest:

Common Courtesy & respect is up to everyone.

Those few individuals who "Choose" not to follow the "Rules" are subject to POLICE JURISTICTION as always.

[paul]

Take a close look at JC Park . The water current is strong as it enters the last stretch before entering the power station .....too risky for paddlers in my opinion

Yes, you're right .... I was thinking of the area by the main parking lot but it's not too far from there to the strong current, especially for those not aware of the area

[inwook80]

so they only want rowers in the pond? is that what his trying to say?

[smerchly]

In my Standard today I see there is a slight difference to what they put on line . The Smerch even made the front page ........

and they split the story since it was printed in more detail than on line ....you can press ctrl while scrolling & the print size should increase.....

.

[matterhorn]

i have sign making equipment and can donate the signs

[bass2mouth]

Great article! Great thread! Great response so far by government! It really seems like the rowing people are in be wrong an have a false sense of ownership! Glad to see this site and community of anglers getting together and making a difference.

Glad to be a member here....where can I get a T-shirt:)

[fenderbender]

all i can say is i am stunned that this made the paper so quickly, and i love the fact that the quotes from the men representing the rowing club are all in contradiction to one another. bet they wished they had time to put up a unified front but, oh well its already in the paper now sorry bout your luck!

[jmvs]

Since the rowers lease the land, they would need permission to make any changes to the land. did the owners of said land OK this change yes or no? If the owners did not OK any change, ie:placing rocks in an obstructive manner, then they have to remove them.

Think of it as a leased store, as leasee you need permission to add signs or change exterior of the building, Sometimes you have to use the building's owner construction staff to do any exterior work, Otherwise the owner can demand you make good what you changes you made to the outside. The same here, Did the rowing club get permisson from the owners to make changes? If not, they better make changes quickly, as to court it can go.

[jmvs]

The pond is crown land... I can't see them being able to deny the public access. It would have to be a safety thing if they did and at that point it would be unsafe for them as well. Here's a little blurb about who owns the pond... we all do.

Ownership: Martindale Pond is considered Crown land and therefore Federally owned property. The city of St. Catharines has expressed interest in acquiring this land. Before this occurs a Property Transfer Assessment must be completed. This assessment determines the environmental condition of the property. The St. Lawrence Sea Way authority originally had jurisdiction of the property who in turn transfered the land in 1974 to Public Works Canada, now known as Public Works and Government Services Canada.

If it's crown land, it becomes a bigger problem, as Crown land/waters are open to every Canadian, it becomes a Constitutional matter as one group denies another group the right to use land or waters under Federal jurisdiction. Something the City has no say in. Since the Rowing club does not own the water, just uses it; they cannot deny any ones use to it. Notwithstanding the rowing contests in which exception can be made to other's usage at times.

To add: the Port Credit Rowing club shares the Credit River with people who live beyond the RR tracks and own powerboats (yes power boats), Somehow the Club and the boat owners have worked things out.

[Dogman]

I'm a little upset I came into this thread so late. I just finished my kayak mounted skeet launcher though. Rowers piss me off just in general principal weird I know. I should go out there with my 9wt and back cast into the racing lanes. In all seriousness though this kind of crap is becoming all too common. Then entire entrance to Chippawa Creek was fenced off so you can't fish there, Gibson has already been mentioned it's a sad state. The emails have gone out and I'll see if there are any strings I can tug on. Oh and I'm totally down for a kayak blockade.

[Dan Andrews]

Well after seeing the pictures I feel a little better. Charlie D and I carried our kayaks down Rockway Gorge through the trees, over a dam and beyond and we still hit the water but and that's a big butt after reading what the Rowing club said in that article I think it's time for a massive invasion of the waters by kayaks, canoes and inflatable furniture. W-mart has floating lounges with ottomans on for under $40. I'm definitely booked this weekend but my calendar is open for a float in after that

[Snags]

First off allow me to say KNIGHTFISHER, I APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS YOU HAVE TAKEN!

Let's be rational though, the cry to get lawyers involved since they lease the land and they made a minor change ... yah they can't do that but I do not want my tax dollars going to lawyer bills ... really the city may provide an ultimatum of MOVE THE ROCKS OR WE WILL AND WE WILL BILL YOU FOR IT. I am sure the Henley Corp is now going to be finding evidence to support their claims and the rationale for the rocks.

In all seriousness some of you need to pull your heads out of your asses though, Knightfisher is going about this the right way, he has contacted the proper parties and is doing so in a manner that makes us look like a civilized population. Unfortunately there are all too many posting drivel that cheapens the work that Knightfisher is doing.

Dumping rocks? Threatening to disrupt the regatta? What a mature way to handle this injustice, no one was raped, no one was killed, no one was even illegally arrested, we have merely been inconvenienced. Save the sit-ins for life changing issues. In a joke that is all fine and dandy but due to the quotes tossed into the newspaper ... it has cheapened Knightfisher's efforts and is making all of us look like a bunch of loogans. And to make matters worse (or better) the newspaper named NFN in it, so now the various rowing interests will be scouring the site to feed information to their leaders to try and influence city hall in the decision. On the other hand I would assume NFN will obtain many more members for fishermen who have read the article and appreciate Knightfisher's efforts.

If the city wants to arrange a meeting between the vested parties ... FANTASTIC, but any of you who would attend, be prepared and have logical arguments other than ITS THE ELITE F***ING US OVER. Between some of the responses here and on the Standard's comment section below the article I have little faith if most of the keyboard warriors on here were to show up for an arranged meeting ... well showing up wouldn't be a problem, but providing logical arguments ... The threat of a lawsuit if someone fell on the rocks loading a boat in and out ... you can fall on a dock, that won't go anywhere, especially since we are not the United States, using a public area at your own risk, especially an area not designed for the use it is used for.

Again, Knightfisher great work, please keep it up, because most of the loogans here are going to cheapen it with the comments and threats being posted (especially from a MOD) and I guarantee that the threats will be taken into consideration, especially if something happens during the Regatta.

EDIT IN*

Please also keep in mind the city has minimal vested interest in fishing, the local economy sees very little benefit to fishing outside of a few stores. Yes people come down here to fish, but there is no comparing the benefit the rowing can bring in since the larger races require a few hotel rooms (parents) and there is a spinoff to the restaurants and bars as well, the bars not so much as long as there are races to be raced still ... witnessed this during the world rowing championships a few years back, Port D bars were dead until the last night or two when most of the competition was done. The impact from the rowing definitely does more than the impact of the fishing on martindale pond.

EDIT FINISH*