Blatant Attack On Our Fishing Rights. Martindale Pond Access Denied‏

[dr_feelgood]

snags, I would bet that the rock dumping was a joke.

[knightfisher]

Quite a few opinions on this thread. We are all entitled to our

opinions, that's what a free society is all about.

I would like to thank all the members who participated in this thread.

I was not expecting this report to create the attention it has.

It really surprised me that all of this happened in a matter of 40 hours.

I don't think any of us expected this to take off as fast as it has.

As I was quoted in the newspaper, we are not going to sanction any

type of disruption or protest to the regatta.

There will be meeting at city hall as the mayor has stated, and we

will work together to come up with an acceptable solution to the

current situation.

Again thanks for all the input, the PMs and e-mails.

Remember this thread, and what kind of results can be had,

when we work together.

Thank you

Dan Burke

[smerchly]

And thanks to you Dan for putting in a lot of time defending our rights as anglers and recreational (pleasure) boaters .Too many people just throw up their hands and allow others to trample their rights . I believe Canada is still a free country and laws are made for everyone . It has been a very exciting , disturbing , informative , enlightening thread & I hope it stirs all of us to know we must take action when we feel our rights are being abused . Here's hoping we can work out a compromise that will be acceptable to all .

[jmvs]

Compromise is certainly the best way for all parties. However it is up to the rowing club to see their way on the issue as certainly the non rowing members of the public have made it clear they wish to work out a viable deal that benefits all parties. However the rowing has gone this far and I suspect are prepared to push further to achieve their end. I doubt, they thought no one would oppose.

Hopefully all parties can come to a common and beneficial agreement. Keep in mind the club is not the owners, but leasees and as such have to conform to the owners wishes. As being Crown land, the question of the city having a say could be an issue as the Feds have final say, not the city

[Snags]

As just edited in to my previous post ... the city has a much bigger vested interest in the rowing club than fishing on martindale pond ... a few extra votes or money into the community and in turn those who probably donate to campaigns.

Please also keep in mind the city has minimal vested interest in fishing, the local economy sees very little benefit to fishing outside of a few stores. Yes people come down here to fish, but there is no comparing the benefit the rowing can bring in since the larger races require a few hotel rooms (parents) and there is a spinoff to the restaurants and bars as well, the bars not so much as long as there are races to be raced still ... witnessed this during the world rowing championships a few years back, Port D bars were dead until the last night or two when most of the competition was done. The impact from the rowing definitely does more than the impact of the fishing on martindale pond.

[sooner]

Just sent an email off to the MPP for the area as well, Jim Bradley. Looking to get one off the Dykstra as well. I talked to the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority about altering shoreline, as I have discovered it is their jurisdiction, not the MNR or MOE. The woman did inform me that there was paperwork that had gone though her office about changes on Henley Island. She told me that the only time that the MNR has and involvement is when changes could impact habitat, and more importantly at risk species.

I do agree that we need to keep our cool, otherwise we could end up with a situation that is worse than it is already. I am proposing that we get some people from the community together to make calm reasonable approaches to correcting this situation in the short term and the long term.

By short term I mean that we try to regain the access on Henley Island. But if we go at it like a bull in a china shop we may do ourselves more harm than good. Protest may be a good idea as long as it is done without interfering in the activities of the rowing club, as this would just give them more reason to try and have us banned from the island all together. I do have some ideas and would encourage anyone that is interested to PM me and we can discuss it.

In the long term I think we should be lobbying the city to either put a small dock for us to use on the island, or give us permission to put one ourselves. We could also ask for a garbage can at our launching area and to have signage put up encouraging paddlers to keep clean of the rowers. This should counter the issues that the club supposedly has.

If anyone is interested in getting together and having a meeting about this please PM me. I would be interested in working with some other motivated individuals to make both short and long term gains.

Meatface

I agree that we should remain calm and collected and think the garbage can and dock is a good idea. The one comment that is really starting to annoy me though and was mentioned in the paper is that we as fisherman, canoeist and rowers leave all kinds of garbage lying around and it always comes back on the fisherman. I agree that some fisherman do make a mess but its not all done by fisherman. I have seen lots of garbage left from people from that Regatta club on the land around they're club houses and I have seen garbage in the park by Tim Hortons where all the spectators gather (some of the banners to cheer teams on have been left all torn sitting on the park ground for almost a year in some cases).

[sooner]

Take a close look at JC Park . The water current is strong as it enters the last stretch before entering the power station .....too risky for paddlers in my opinion . The old road at the Green Ribbon Trail could be opened to the water so vehicles could park there , but it's narrow ....not much room to turn around . Rennie Park is where the rowers end their races , too crowded for both canoeists & yaks , The Henley Is. launch is the best spot of all .

Maybe they could move the gate down further at the green ribbon trail so we can back vehicles down the hill to within 5-10 feet of waters edge?

[sooner]

I'm a little upset I came into this thread so late. I just finished my kayak mounted skeet launcher though. Rowers piss me off just in general principal weird I know. I should go out there with my 9wt and back cast into the racing lanes. In all seriousness though this kind of crap is becoming all too common. Then entire entrance to Chippawa Creek was fenced off so you can't fish there, Gibson has already been mentioned it's a sad state. The emails have gone out and I'll see if there are any strings I can tug on. Oh and I'm totally down for a kayak blockade.

I agree with all the blockages to water as being crap becoming all to common. Let's hope the community wins this one and access continues for all and proves to be non confrontational long term and maybe friends can be made and experiences can continue to be enjoyed from all groups as this would help build a stronger community. Who knows maybe some of the other closed access areas can be re-opened at some point.

[slooky]

Thanks to Dan!

I have been fishing Martindale pond for about 23 years. About 20 years ago I was launching my canoe with my son and this older man and a younger one got out of their car to tell me that I wasn't allowed to canoe in Martindale. They were getting rather rude and I kindly told them that I will canoe in here because they do not own it. The older one said we will see about that!

Shortly thereafter I noticed a police car at the Rowing club, I couldn't believe it. I am sure the police said there was nothing they could do.

So a few weeks later I noticed that they put up Jersey Barriers along the road to block me from getting access. I still continued to canoe and fish.

Now I see they have blocked it completely. My canoe is quite heavy so trying to get over those rocks will be out of the question

but I do have a baby carriage that I took the carriage off and put the canoe on and just wheel it to wherever I can launch.

So if they think that will stop me? Not a chance!

[DaveC]

I agree that we should remain calm and collected and think the garbage can and dock is a good idea. The one comment that is really starting to annoy me though and was mentioned in the paper is that we as fisherman, canoeist and rowers leave all kinds of garbage lying around and it always comes back on the fisherman. I agree that some fisherman do make a mess but its not all done by fisherman. I have seen lots of garbage left from people from that Regatta club on the land around they're club houses and I have seen garbage in the park by Tim Hortons where all the spectators gather (some of the banners to cheer teams on have been left all torn sitting on the park ground for almost a year in some cases).

Yes, I noticed that as well. Garbage is always pointed at the fishernan. When in fact its not just fisherman and that statement needs to be addressed at the meeting. Garbage is a human being issue, not a fisherman issue.....whoever made those remarks needs to eat his/her words. Just goes to show how all garbage relates to fishermen around waterways. Take a walk around a Tims.....people just to lazy to walk to a trash can. Really ticks me off is those remarks....Please someone, make sure you address the garbage issue with them. They will try to use that as a weapon in defense of the situation, or it will be thrown in.

[YakFisher]

So I'm putting in right now at the now, infamous spot and a car pulls up with a canoe. Guy gets out and I see hits little girl peering through the window. He doesn't know about the rocks. So I talk to him quickly about what's going on and offer him a hand getting hits giant canoe in the water. He thanks me but declines and drives away disappointed. His little girl looks confused. Poor kid.

Just thought I'd tell everyone. Also, if anyone is in the area this afternoon, I'll probably be in here all day. Red kayak.

[smerchly]

Snags .....thanks for reminding us of the David verses Goliath story . I believe this scene is tied in with the huge condo/tower development and of course , the famous regatta is part of Port Dal. history . They are using erosion ,garbage and safety as their prime reasons for dumping rocks and defacing the shoreline ! Pathetic ! I suppose they will bring in one of their "experts" & consultants to proclaim the island was being wash away by the water from the "pond" . I am an "expert" myself when it comes to garbage & I can tell you I have seen garbage tossed by many who do not fish . And I can also state that people , young & old , like myself, who enjoy canoeing & kayaking are serious naturalists who take great care to keep their environment clean !! I hope some of the people who tuned into the NFN fishing forum browsed through some other threads & read about our trash cleaning efforts . And I hope this newspaper story will bring in many new members who agree with our efforts . Remember this one.......getting our young people interested in fishing ,canoeing , camping ,and exploring what nature has to offer is a great alternative to getting into trouble with the law. Both of my kids have a keen appreciation for natures beauty and we MUST keep our environment open for all to enjoy !

[CLofchik]

Must be fate, have to be in St.Kitts for a few hours this afternoon so I might as well give the salmon a skip and paddle Martindale for a few hours this evening. I'll be the green solo canoe, putting in around 4-4:30.

Fishing Burlington-Oakville-GTA I see this type of crap every year from one group or another.

Oh, and somebody should point out it's both a Federal & Provincial offense to deliberately block otherwise legal anglers from fishing.

[little cleo]

Who put the boulders there?

[sooner]

Snags .....thanks for reminding us of the David verses Goliath story . I believe this scene is tied in with the huge condo/tower development and of course , the famous regatta is part of Port Dal. history . They are using erosion ,garbage and safety as their prime reasons for dumping rocks and defacing the shoreline ! Pathetic ! I suppose they will bring in one of their "experts" & consultants to proclaim the island was being wash away by the water from the "pond" . I am an "expert" myself when it comes to garbage & I can tell you I have seen garbage tossed by many who do not fish . And I can also state that people , young & old , like myself, who enjoy canoeing & kayaking are serious naturalists who take great care to keep their environment clean !! I hope some of the people who tuned into the NFN fishing forum browsed through some other threads & read about our trash cleaning efforts . And I hope this newspaper story will bring in many new members who agree with our efforts . Remember this one.......getting our young people interested in fishing ,canoeing , camping ,and exploring what nature has to offer is a great alternative to getting into trouble with the law. Both of my kids have a keen appreciation for natures beauty and we MUST keep our environment open for all to enjoy !

I'm no expert but with the lower water levels I don't really see how erosion is a huge issue.

[Snags]

Martindale doesn't fluctuate.

[jmvs]

I'm no expert but with the lower water levels I don't really see how erosion is a huge issue.

The ill thought out manner in which the rocks are placed, indicate no sense or logic in preventing erosion was pursued. Actually the poor placement of the rock can increase the erosion of the area since it channels water between, causing high velocity pressure zones nibbling away at concentrated areas, as well as turning wave direction to the sides increasing the problem.

[blairwelsh]

This is a Story Published in the Toronto Sun today.

Expresses the "Similair" philosophy that is Going on in Niagara and EVERYWHERE!

MAIN ISSUES that are PREVELANT in our whole ACCESS of WATERFRONT.

*Home Owners / Boat Owners pay taxes and have just as much RIGHT to their enjoyment.

However, seems to CROSS the LINE when they believe they OWN the WHOLE FRIGGIN WATERFRONT!

[blairwelsh]

One MORE:

MO: Public is the New Private

You knew that, right?

Well if you didn’t, just launch your boat at your favourite “very public” lake and start fishing the shorelines for bass.

You will quickly find out that most waterfront owners, not all, but most, will be quick to explain to you that you’re trespassing. And guaranteed, they won’t saunter down to the lake edge sipping a mug of morning coffee dressed in their pajamas and kindly ask you to get away from their little piece of paradise. Rather, expect an explosion of insane lunacy delivered by a rake-wielding, stone-throwing nutcase foaming at the mouth whilst shouting a tirade filled with the most updated versions of profanity and threats available!

This is the form of abuse and harassment anglers are enduring most outings. It is illegal and demeans your rights as a tax-paying citizen of this country.

Let’s approach this situation with an open mind based on the facts. This article is not intended to promote extremist activity nor is it a propaganda-fueled political statement. It’s about your rights, the laws of this fantastic country and the availability and access to its wealth of natural resources. Let’s move on, shall we?

As a citizen of this country, we are all entitled to the same basic set of allowances detailed in our constitution and upheld by a letter of explanation pertaining to human rights.

A navigable waterway granted access for public use allows any citizen the freedom to use that lake, river, reservoir or impoundment in a lawful manner for business or recreation. Typically, the boundaries of crown (public) area are determined by not that of the waters edge to a private property, but rather the high water mark determined by the expected and normal flood plane, documented by the provincial or regional governing body. Or if the waterway is small and no such document is available, the high water mark is of the first permanent natural non-aquatic structure such as a row of bushes, or trees.

Of course, one could say, “Why subject yourself to such distasteful remarks fishing a cottage owner’s dock or the shoreline their property is attached to? There are other water bodies to fish, go elsewhere.” Well, for instance, shorelines offer some of the most productive cover on the lake. Many fish, especially bass, love to live under, or around man-made structures. So why not fish near them? Anglers are well within their legal rights to angle an in-season species as close to the shore as necessary as deemed by the angler.

Conversely, a waterfront owner who approaches you is well within their right to speak with you about your location and even ask you to move along. However, if they impede your actions as an angler, threaten or harass you, they are then breaking the law and can be charged for such ridiculousness.

This year alone in eastern Ontario, I have been harassed and threatened on 3 different occasions. One waterfront owner even put buoys out in the water in front of his property. He claimed to have anyone inside these buoys charged with trespassing. Challenging him, I suggested he call the Ontario Provincial Police. No officers responded…

Another time while I was competing in a bass tournament, a lake resident shouted at the boats before take off that we should “F#*K off and ruin our own lake.” This land owner’s portrayal of entitlement went so far as believing that somehow as a waterfront land owner he owned a piece of the lake (not to mention, us anglers owned one of our own somewhere and we should not be on his). Is this how all cottage owners feel?

Maybe?

It’s examples like these horror stories that lay a foundation of failure for public water access. Soon if we don’t own waterfront property, we won’t be able to enjoy our favourite little fishing honey hole.

Waterfront owners who feel entitled to special allowances incorporating the water must realize that their dreamed-up version of what they own and who may use it is sadistic and resonates an image of Nazi elitism.

If any waterfront property owner has read this far and is grinding their teeth at this article’s notion, please feel free to read a little further.

YOU DO NOT OWN THE WATER. IT IS CROWN PROPERTY!

That means it belongs to us all. Well, probably it belongs to the native Indians of this country, but that’s a whole other ball of wax.

We’ve gone this far, let’s go a step farther.

Waterfront owners will go as far as to say that anglers are damaging their docks and boats by casting lures at them. This is very possible. However, this is a crime completely unrelated. It’s called vandalism. I suggest a property owner take it up on a case-by-case infraction and call the police if they can prove an angler damaged their property. Just be sure it’s not an unsubstantiated claim. The police don’t care for middle-aged tattletale ninnies.

To summarize this rambling thought, it’s important to understand, regardless of what stance one takes on this issue as dictated by their interest, that there are rules. Real, actual rules that determine who can go where and do what. Unfortunately, more often than not, a select few people on either side of the fence take it too far, which leads to shouting matches and physical threats, if not some form of assault.

But you know what? I’ve yet to see an angler pull up to a cottage owner’s dock and shout obscenities at the fact that his dock or swim wharf is in the way of his fishing… Makes a person think.

By Trevor Kunopaski of Militant Outdoors

[blairwelsh]

I am a PROUD MEMBER of TUFA - Toronto Urban Fishing Amabassadors

http://torontourbanfishing.com/

We were Established to Fight For Our Rights to have access.

Some excellent "real life experiences" and ACTION PLANS may also be of help with your fine cause.

[jmvs]

One MORE:

MO: Public is the New Private

You knew that, right?

Well if you didn’t, just launch your boat at your favourite “very public” lake and start fishing the shorelines for bass.

You will quickly find out that most waterfront owners, not all, but most, will be quick to explain to you that you’re trespassing. And guaranteed, they won’t saunter down to the lake edge sipping a mug of morning coffee dressed in their pajamas and kindly ask you to get away from their little piece of paradise. Rather, expect an explosion of insane lunacy delivered by a rake-wielding, stone-throwing nutcase foaming at the mouth whilst shouting a tirade filled with the most updated versions of profanity and threats available!

This is the form of abuse and harassment anglers are enduring most outings. It is illegal and demeans your rights as a tax-paying citizen of this country.

Let’s approach this situation with an open mind based on the facts. This article is not intended to promote extremist activity nor is it a propaganda-fueled political statement. It’s about your rights, the laws of this fantastic country and the availability and access to its wealth of natural resources. Let’s move on, shall we?

As a citizen of this country, we are all entitled to the same basic set of allowances detailed in our constitution and upheld by a letter of explanation pertaining to human rights.

A navigable waterway granted access for public use allows any citizen the freedom to use that lake, river, reservoir or impoundment in a lawful manner for business or recreation. Typically, the boundaries of crown (public) area are determined by not that of the waters edge to a private property, but rather the high water mark determined by the expected and normal flood plane, documented by the provincial or regional governing body. Or if the waterway is small and no such document is available, the high water mark is of the first permanent natural non-aquatic structure such as a row of bushes, or trees.

Of course, one could say, “Why subject yourself to such distasteful remarks fishing a cottage owner’s dock or the shoreline their property is attached to? There are other water bodies to fish, go elsewhere.” Well, for instance, shorelines offer some of the most productive cover on the lake. Many fish, especially bass, love to live under, or around man-made structures. So why not fish near them? Anglers are well within their legal rights to angle an in-season species as close to the shore as necessary as deemed by the angler.

Conversely, a waterfront owner who approaches you is well within their right to speak with you about your location and even ask you to move along. However, if they impede your actions as an angler, threaten or harass you, they are then breaking the law and can be charged for such ridiculousness.

This year alone in eastern Ontario, I have been harassed and threatened on 3 different occasions. One waterfront owner even put buoys out in the water in front of his property. He claimed to have anyone inside these buoys charged with trespassing. Challenging him, I suggested he call the Ontario Provincial Police. No officers responded…

Another time while I was competing in a bass tournament, a lake resident shouted at the boats before take off that we should “F#*K off and ruin our own lake.” This land owner’s portrayal of entitlement went so far as believing that somehow as a waterfront land owner he owned a piece of the lake (not to mention, us anglers owned one of our own somewhere and we should not be on his). Is this how all cottage owners feel?

Maybe?

It’s examples like these horror stories that lay a foundation of failure for public water access. Soon if we don’t own waterfront property, we won’t be able to enjoy our favourite little fishing honey hole.

Waterfront owners who feel entitled to special allowances incorporating the water must realize that their dreamed-up version of what they own and who may use it is sadistic and resonates an image of Nazi elitism.

If any waterfront property owner has read this far and is grinding their teeth at this article’s notion, please feel free to read a little further.

YOU DO NOT OWN THE WATER. IT IS CROWN PROPERTY!

That means it belongs to us all. Well, probably it belongs to the native Indians of this country, but that’s a whole other ball of wax.

We’ve gone this far, let’s go a step farther.

Waterfront owners will go as far as to say that anglers are damaging their docks and boats by casting lures at them. This is very possible. However, this is a crime completely unrelated. It’s called vandalism. I suggest a property owner take it up on a case-by-case infraction and call the police if they can prove an angler damaged their property. Just be sure it’s not an unsubstantiated claim. The police don’t care for middle-aged tattletale ninnies.

To summarize this rambling thought, it’s important to understand, regardless of what stance one takes on this issue as dictated by their interest, that there are rules. Real, actual rules that determine who can go where and do what. Unfortunately, more often than not, a select few people on either side of the fence take it too far, which leads to shouting matches and physical threats, if not some form of assault.

But you know what? I’ve yet to see an angler pull up to a cottage owner’s dock and shout obscenities at the fact that his dock or swim wharf is in the way of his fishing… Makes a person think.

By Trevor Kunopaski of Militant Outdoors

Actually many of these docks are illegal as well, the MNR no longer allows fixed in place docks without a permit, nevertheless many land owners still put them up. As for floating docks, I don't know what the situation is.

[jmvs]

This link explains the rights of Canadian to navigate any body of water where a boat can travel (a boat includes canoe or kayak)

Google: (Questions about the Navigable Waters Protection Act or NWPA) part of Transport Canada website.

This certainly applies to Martindale Pond, and further it does not differentiate between power or human power boats. In truth there is no right by any body except the Feds, who can ban power bosts from navigable water, certainly not the rowing club, nor City of St Catharines.

Note the paragraph,

"Gaining approval to restrict the public's right to navigate can only be done a few ways, including an Act of Parliament."

Does the rowing club request permission to shut down part of Martindale Pond when they hold their contests. As requested by law. Think not...

[smerchly]

During the races the Decew Generating Plant shuts down the generators to lower the water level of the 12 Mile Creek to stop the current flow for the regatta .They must bring in power from else where during those times .....I wonder if this costs all of us more for that imported power ?

[blairwelsh]

Smerch, you are a WISE MAN!

Factor in this Story ... and you'll quickly "read between the lines" and see the "Game" is everywhere!

Shame ... it's OUR MONEY!

Ontario paying millions to subsidize hydro consumers outside province

By Canadian Press | Jan 28, 2011 11:17 am

TORONTO – The governing Liberals are again in the hot seat over why home electricity bills are rising while the province pays neighbours to take its power.

According to the agency charged with overseeing Ontario’s power grid, the province paid more than $2.1 million in subsidies to utilities in neighbouring provinces and U.S. states just four days ago, NDP critic Peter Tabuns said Friday.

That’s on top of the nearly $1.5 million it paid to Quebec and the U.S. to rid itself of surplus power on Jan. 1.

But unlike New Year’s Day when Ontario was selling power it didn’t need, the province was in a deep freeze on Jan. 24, recording its highest domestic demand day in more than two years

It’s outrageous that families are being financially drained by high electricity rates, while the Liberals subsidize American and Quebec consumers, he said.

He’s urging the government to close a loophole in the province’s electricity export rules that has forced Ontario to subsidize neighbouring hydro users, which he says has cost about $1 billion since 2006.

“I can understand this happening when electricity demand is low and there’s a surplus of power in our system, but it’s galling to have it happen on days when the province is in a deep freeze and demand is high,” Tabuns said in a release.

“Ontario families are already feeling a squeeze on their hydro bills. Why should they also continue to subsidize the electricity costs of others? It’s like adding insult to injury.”

Premier Dalton McGuinty, who is expected to deliver a speech in Windsor on Friday, has argued that Ontario still makes a profit from selling power to other provinces and American states, even if it sometimes had to pay neighbours to take its surplus power.

The debate over rising electricity bills has quickly emerged as a major political battleground in the lead-up to the Oct. 6 election.

The Opposition Conservatives have largely blamed the increases on lucrative contracts the government signed for wind-generated power that must be paid even when the electricity isn’t needed.

The same could be said about nuclear power, which provides about half of the province’s electricity.

Another bone of contention with the Tories is the so-called global adjustment on electricity bills, which the government prefers to call the provincial benefit.

It is the difference between what the province pays for power on long-term energy contracts and the market price of electricity, and is now between three to four cents per kilowatt hour.

The global adjustment isn’t charged on exported power, so traders in North American energy markets are buying Ontario power for much less than Ontario ratepayers, and selling it to Quebec or the U.S. for much higher rates.

The government says charging the global adjustment for exports would reduce the province’s ability to export electricity.

[CLofchik]

I stopped by there for a short paddle today.

The venom & BS spewed by the rowers was beyond belief. I grew up in Hamilton Harbour which has a large and active rowing club, and they are as self centered & narcissistic as Henvey Is., but damn the BS that was coming out of these people's mouths was beyond belief. There is no group of water users more egomanical, but yet so nautically uninformed than rowers.

Some poor sod in a rec kayak put in before me, in a break in the trees that now passes for a beach after "The Rocks" were dropped. It became a mini-crisis as the spotter boat scooted ahead and warned everybody of the pending emergency that a kayak was in the water. I dropped my canoe in and started paddling around, and then another kayak launched, and damnit if the spotter boat didn't chase him around like a mad bird after a hawk.

What really was the kicker was the chatter between rowers, apparently everybody that isn't a rower is an idiot, a moron, and OMFG a danger to public safety because gosh darnit they are moving and there might be somebody else on the horizon.

It's amazing that in Hamilton a rowing club with twice as many shells, a longer history, and three times as many paying members can operate with sailboats, powerboats, PWC's, and even the odd paddlecraft. Amazing that nobody has been killed by daring to occupy the same waterbody!

Frankly after this afternoon I'll be part of any positive action against these self righteous idiots,