schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i was reading another forum and i am blown away that people think that steelhead should be protected and dealt with in the same manner as browns, bows and brookies for instance. some dudes seem to think introduced species should supercede the ones that have called our rivers home for thousands of years- funny it seems its all a narrow minded put-a-bend-in-my rod mentality with no long term vision.Are these people serious? these are native fish-if you want to chase tanks get a boat--the rivers associations that protect native species are the best thing since ..well sliced bread . whats your take on this and my opinion. lets keep it friendy lol if you disagree i will steel chuck flies with ya..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Man Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i was reading another forum and i am blown away that people think that steelhead should be protected and dealt with in the same manner as browns, bows and brookies for instance. some dudes seem to think introduced species should supercede the ones that have called our rivers home for thousands of years- funny it seems its all a narrow minded put-a-bend-in-my rod mentality with no long term vision.Are these people serious? these are native fish-if you want to chase tanks get a boat--the rivers associations that protect native species are the best thing since ..well sliced bread . whats your take on this and my opinion. lets keep it friendy lol if you disagree i will steel chuck flies with ya..lol So you seen that post ..... I know I am shocked I could not even bother to respond to some of those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 There is a huge cult following for steelhead. Just like the muskie cult and the bass cult and the carp cult. In their worlds, their fish is exalted and sacred, beyond anything else that swims. They aren't native, but they have their place in the provincial fishery. That said, they are still just a fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i am blown away that its more important to have big old steel in the rivers so these dudes can put a bend in thier rod--this is like native indians man...maybe we could herd all the native fish together and just have trout ponds on special reserves and pay to play with the fish. and have the rivers plastered with steel..so that roe sales increase...i just dont geti it.however humans have benn short sighted in thier decisions for 1000s of years so why stop now.soon a brookie is gonna be like catching a white tiger under the burnampthorpe bridge i hear you however pike and musky are very different..from what i gather they are somewhwat native no? i may be wrong-- for a total of maybe 4 months of the year these goons line the rivers...in order to completely eradicate native fish i guess? like i said watch "dances with wolves" we did it to the forefathers of every square inch of land we live on ...why not eliminate everything native for the sake of money. PS there will be some that assume i am speaking on this forum because of one reason or another.lets me clear i am here because i like speaking wiht most of you, i do not have issues whether they be ones i have created of ones that i have become a part of for one reason or another. there a re a select few that i avoid like the clap for my own personal reasons. unfortunetly they all dweel on one site..and it is not this one. so before any stray cat desides to PM with stupid comments.. spare me. sorry for the rant(s) bad day for me .lol no brookies..people putting steel before native fish and work just has me up to my arsehole in alligators... bow man- you keep saving the native fish- its not just cool. its common sense-save what has survived there for millenia--no need to adapt. no need to do anything but watch nature do its thing..if they are so worried about the fish maybe they could consider not leaving 3/4 of a km of pink roe sack mesh and j13 packaging on the shore alonside cigarette packs and beer cans. maybe that would help..after all the shore is attached to the water last time i checked hence the tree planting initiatives by the "fish people" lol fml. ogh and PS worm Styrofoam boxes do not become fertilizer..for those of you in the back row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Man Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I agree Schnipster, I am just trying to find a organization I can get behind to help out, I worry as with many "organizations " that my money goes to the "cause" and not to the pockets. I know that my self and a few friends go out to our local "hole" 4-6 times a year and try to clean up the best we can, but there are always the few that just don't care. I have read many mixed reviews on T.C.U, so I wonder if this is the right direction for me to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 at the end of the day all organizations have thier dark side.. i for one enver send money to unicef or WWF as i am always wondering two things- what percentage actually feeds these people or animals and secondly-why do people insist on saving kids half way across the world when 2 people froze 2 death on our city streets just in the last week. its as if laziness drives writing a check and getting a nice 8x10 photo of the kid you sponsor so you can show your friends how much of a philanthropist you are and how you may end up at the perly fates for your good deed ..why not go downtown to a soup kitchen and serve people food..does not work in my head. it all comes down to what makes you feel good at the end of the day IMO. if you like saving Bengal tigers..fill your boots. but use common sense, if there is a group pushing to introduce them in windsor it might be better to live to fight another fight..right? there are certain sisters and brothers of ours that regularily eat dogs..brutalizing them--boiling them alive...maybe we should consider puttig the brakes on that and not worrying about how many steelhead we can introduce to make a fast buck on selling noodle rods. oh and bigugli there are only approx 1 million licensed fisherman in canada from what i understand- fishing is not a big enough industry to worry about making sure the rivers are stocked with the fun fush..just sayin. we dont even have a dedicated fy fishing show for crying out loud-in the states there is one every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 again just a discussion --the opinions expressed in the preceding and following program are those of the participants and do no necessarily reflect those of NFN or fisherman abroad..lolol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I like steelhead...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 me too. i also like you..but i wont send money to have millions of you put in my back yard HAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i just though i would get the waters going up at NFN...get some discussions going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Atlantics anyone? But seriously, if I'm not mistaken both Rainbows and Browns are actually introduced species in this area. They've just been here so long that they are accepted as native species. Brookies, on the other hand are true natives. Which is why I'm glad we have Algonquin with it's large native brookie population that can be hard for loogans to access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yes, the only salmonids native to lake Ontario are Atlantic Salmon and Lake Trout. All the others are introduced. I'm all for conserving and respecting the fishery, regardless of the species, but lets not denigrate one species in favour of another. I also shake my head when I see comments or hear people talking about various conservation and restoration efforts as being "wasteful if it doesn't contribute to the fishery." Whatever happened to conserving and restoring habitat for the sake of fish just because its the right thing to do? Throughout much of their range for instance, Atlantic Salmon are having a hard time with pollution, acid rain, burgeoning seal populations (don't get me started on the seal hunt) and physical barriers such as dams and other development. A lake Ontario Atlantic will never fight like one fresh from the sea, but that alone shouldn't be a measure of how much should be done to help them as a species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 http://www.saultthisweek.com/2014/11/11/wild-atlantic-salmon-fry-found-in-st-marys Seems like reproduction issues might change when we get to the underlying causes. Good points coachman. I can tell you first hand that TU does more work that helps the native brookie population than you think. Helping restore habitant for one species often is helping to restore the habitat for native species as well. Stream restoration usually starts at the headwaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverRuns Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I think the reason Schnip has such a hate on for steelies is he finds them so hard to catch Don't despair...the fall was tough for a lot of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ola Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 http://www.saultthisweek.com/2014/11/11/wild-atlantic-salmon-fry-found-in-st-marys Seems like reproduction issues might change when we get to the underlying causes. the interesting thing about the brilliant success of the atlantic stocking in the soo (5-10x greater return than other species like steelhead), run by lake superior state university in michigan, is that the man running it admits it took him 18 years to figure out how to do it right. raising the fingerlings in remote tanks then dumping them into the river he figures just resulted in massive mortality until they figured out the fish needed to be spawned, raised and then released right in the river itself. now they have pens/raceways within the power plant that drain directly into the st. mary's river. when it is time to release them they just open the pens and the fish can come and go all season through what is then a regular river channel. since starting this method, so many of the older fish have imprinted so well they end up hanging around in the pen area thtoughout the season so they actually have to be flushed out of the pen areas before starting the next batch. and the spawning fish swim right up to the power plant making it easy to collect the next batch of eggs. what puzzles me, and the gentleman who was explaining all this to us, is why the craa is re-making all of the lssu mistakes at a cost of millions of $ when they could learn from 30 years of someone else's experience (and now excellent results). if the good folks at the craa and the mnr would just swallow their massive pride and ask for help, there might be a glimmer of hope for this bizarre project. why reinvent the wheel-with my money? on the other hand, the americans are only too happy to catch the mature atlantics we are dropping into lake ontario since they are turning up in those rivers rather than back in the credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 isnt the atlantic program the biggest waste of money in the history of conservation and fisheries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 isnt the atlantic program the biggest waste of money in the history of conservation and fisheries? The efforts in Lake Ontario are not effective as they stand. The Atlantic Salmon being stocked are from hatcheries on the Lehave River in Nova Scotia. The imprint is for the Lehave. Dumping them into Lake Ontario simply ensures that they won't find their way home to spawn. The reason they are getting better results in the Soo is because the imprinting occurs there. A change in strategy is required; however, It isn't time to abandon the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnipster Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 i would say 1 in 10 fish i catch on my headwaters are atlantics...god i miss the summmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ola Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 isnt the atlantic program the biggest waste of money in the history of conservation and fisheries? it certainly can be seen as such since the folks in charge refuse to get help from the folks who have already been through the learning curve. granted, conditions are different in the soo area but the science is the same so stop pouring money down the drain in the form of parr unless you can correct the problems such as imprinting and especially, water quality. (it will take a mighty hearty fish to make it through the quagmire that is the lower credit waters and past the annual september treble bloom.) at this point i would label the people pushing this program as misguided. if they continue the follow this route without stopping and asking for help aling the way then i would have to reassess them as just plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 this is a fantastic read for anyone who wants learn about the history http://probeinternational.org/library/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/0824_001.pdf while i support the native species, you can not deny the booming fishing industry created by the salmon and steelhead. you may not like them, but they are here to stay, at least for the forseeable future. I think this is going to be one of the last spawning years for stocked fish, the rest are wild! also as far as a good organization to join, metro east anglers i've heard good things about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 That is a great read. When you say last spawning you mean 4yr old hatchery fish i presume? So no stocking in the last 4 yrs correct? One of the reasons i love fishing the credit, some of my best fighting fish have come from there. Thats a great read you posted...starting to read it will finish it later. Thx. Btw, i had the chance to run my drift boat past the spawning grounds last spring all i can say is the credit has a great wild population of steelhead...from what i saw stacked like cordwood. Good thing its private property to keep people away. CRAA does some great work. Ive met John Kendall and few of the guys..cant say enough good things they have done. Yes there is failures...but also tons of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 That is a great read. When you say last spawning you mean 4yr old hatchery fish i presume? So no stocking in the last 4 yrs correct? One of the reasons i love fishing the credit, some of my best fighting fish have come from there. Thats a great read you posted...starting to read it will finish it later. Thx. Btw, i had the chance to run my drift boat past the spawning grounds last spring all i can say is the credit has a great wild population of steelhead...from what i saw stacked like cordwood. Good thing its private property to keep people away. CRAA does some great work. Ive met John Kendall and few of the guys..cant say enough good things they have done. Yes there is failures...but also tons of success. correct, if what i have read and heard is correct, then 95%+ of the returning steel head and salmon are wild depending on which part of the province you're in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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