Baitcasters and float fishing

[corsara]

I've been watching experienced anglers all use centerpins down at the river to control their drift.  Being new to float fishing and being a bit intimidated by the whole centerpin idea, I did some research and discovered baitcasters is the next best thing, definitely better than spinning setups.  So I bought a 10 ft Shimano Clarus (the longest baitcaster I could find in store), and repurposed one of my bass baitcaster reels for the task at hand.   Already tried it once the other day.  Needless to say, had some frustrated experience, and here are some notes, hope it helps somebody else:

1) Use heavier float to add more weight---20g is what I used.  

2) Obviously a slip float setup is needed.  Unfortunately, baitcaster rods have small guides, so you're pretty much limited to the length of the rod for depth.

3) Forget about normal casting, didn't work for me.  Flipping seemed the only way I could reliably cast the stuff in the water without causing a birds nest.  I'm not new to baitcasters, I did play with both brakes.

4) Shotting patterns----kinda had to forget about it   bulking the weight seems the only way to reduce frustration.

5) I'm yet to try with those thrill bobber stops, perhaps they'll go through the guides easier allowing me longer depth.  Rubber bobber stops = no way through the guides.

6) The good news:  when you finally get the stuff to go in the water where you want it to be, then baitcaster performs really well letting line out under the pull of the float in the current.

Anyone has any tips, pls share.  Will be greatly appreciated!

[pauly]

I float with a baitcast outfit. Use thill stops. They go through the guides.  Tie the stop tight so it does not slide down the line as it passes through guides. If line does not pass freely from spool I mend it out or pull it out so line passes without resistance from the spool.  I love my setup.  Spray guides in ice situations so stop passes through guides better. Weight distribution of sinkers etc  in big water is not crucial for me.  I use one or two bigger split shot about 18 inches above business end.  Fluor tippet is a good idea in clear water. Good luck!  

[pauly]

Try to get floating mono.  Sinking line is a pain as you have to reel in a lot of slack to get your hook set.  The drag on the line also inhibits the flow of the float. Sigloi makes some floating line I think. Try peters tackle. 

[corsara]

Thanks @pauly.  In a matter of fact, couldn't rest and bought some thrill stops during lunchtime from CT around the corner.  It's a zoo out there with all of these Black Friday shopper-ers..  But I digress.  Thanks for the tips, I'm glad I'm not going to be the only one.  It's comforting to know it worked for somebody, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time.

[smerchly]

Fishing deep water with slip floats has always been a challenge for me because the line stop catch the smaller guides , especially the end one which is angled . I tried lubing the rubber stops & guides with Pam , but it didn't help much . I bought some thin yarn at the $ store....lots of colours , & tied a small  double twist knot which helped to get my float setting at 25 ft . (Rec.Canal for pike )  , using a large heavy slip float . Rods with larger guides helps a lot . My 12' carp rod would let a pea size stop go through easily !  lol !  

 I have been tempted to try spraying my spool of mono with silicon .....but fearful of damaging the line . It may also wash off first cast . What is the latest lube guys ?  The early morning temps are below freezing  now & it's a chore to keep "de-icing" the guides .

[steellee]

I  floatfish with a baitcasters all winter as my hands do much better with a baitcaster than a centerpin when it's cold and I can wear gloves. You re on the right track. Casting should get easier. With a top end baitcaster adjusted right I can out cast the same rig with a centerpin I believe. You definitely need a good quality baitcast for floatfishing. I'm partial to shimano and use a Calcutta te DC.  The inline sinkers help a lot with casting and simplifying your rig if you can find them.  I like them in 1/5, 1/4 and 3/8 size. You can also make your own with hollow pencil Lead. The thill stops should help if not than  look up nail knot it is a float stopper knot you can tie yourself with mono line and trim. I have a 13 spiral wrap and a 10'6 for the purpose and I actually much prefer the 10'6, only use for the 13' is when it gets super cold and slip float no longer slides well than I run fixed floats and need the extra length. I have many centerpin outfits and enjoy them but on  big River like niagara I'm just as comfortable using a baitcast outfit. 

 

[corsara]

3 minutes ago, steellee said:

I  floatfish with a baitcasters all winter as my hands do much better with a baitcaster than a centerpin when it's cold and I can wear gloves. You re on the right track. Casting should get easier. With a top end baitcaster adjusted right I can out cast the same rig with a centerpin I believe. You definitely need a good quality baitcast for floatfishing. I'm partial to shimano and use a Calcutta te DC.  The inline sinkers help a lot with casting and simplifying your rig if you can find them.  I like them in 1/5, 1/4 and 3/8 size. You can also make your own with hollow pencil Lead. The thill stops should help if not than  look up nail knot it is a float stopper knot you can tie yourself with mono line and trim. I have a 13 spiral wrap and a 10'6 for the purpose and I actually much prefer the 10'6, only use for the 13' is when it gets super cold and slip float no longer slides well than I run fixed floats and need the extra length. I have many centerpin outfits and enjoy them but on  big River like niagara I'm just as comfortable using a baitcast outfit. 

 

Great, thank you for the encouragement!  Since I posted earlier today, I'm back home and tried the thrill stops I bought today, they seem to pass through the guides very well.  Still yet to be tested on water.  Question:  do you space out the sinkers with the baitcaster?  Obviously when you're using inline sinkers, you're not.  The way I see it, so far that could potentially be the only drawback for the baitcaster.  If I space them out, then flipping seems like the only option, which can go only so far..

[steellee]

No you can certainly still cast a rig. My typical winter rig would be 11-12 gram float with a 1/4 (7 gram) inline on top of a series of evenly spaced BB shot spreading a few feet. Than say 18-36" of floro depending on water. A good rule of thumb for casting is length of rig should be less than length of rod. If you want to go deeper you can spread say and 8 ft rig than have 5ft of slip float travel to get you to 13' etc. Just adjust float stop as needed. That being said I wrap my winter rods with oversized guides so I have no worries about reeling my stoppers past my guides. At times it seems there almost on my reel in the really deep slow pools I frequent in winter. 1 other huge advantage is the ability to switch it up to different technique if floating is slow. I have a nice hike I usually do starting with my float rod and hit all my pools. The trip back I switch it up to bottom bouncing, tube jigs or kwikfish and try to pick up some fish on different techniques that I may have missed out on floatfishing

[corsara]

Thanks again for very valuable info!  

[Tyler0420]

6 hours ago, smerchly said:

Fishing deep water with slip floats has always been a challenge for me because the line stop catch the smaller guides , especially the end one which is angled . I tried lubing the rubber stops & guides with Pam , but it didn't help much . I bought some thin yarn at the $ store....lots of colours , & tied a small  double twist knot which helped to get my float setting at 25 ft . (Rec.Canal for pike )  , using a large heavy slip float . Rods with larger guides helps a lot . My 12' carp rod would let a pea size stop go through easily !  lol !  

 I have been tempted to try spraying my spool of mono with silicon .....but fearful of damaging the line . It may also wash off first cast . What is the latest lube guys ?  The early morning temps are below freezing  now & it's a chore to keep "de-icing" the guides .

Lube I use is from “loon outdoors” works great. 

[corsara]

30 minutes ago, Tyler0420 said:

Lube I use is from “loon outdoors” works great. 

I looked this up, says "reel lube".  Does it help with freeze up of the guides?  If so, do you spray it on the line in the spool, or how.  Thanks.

[Tyler0420]

It’s a paste and I jus rub it on the eyes. I think they call it “temperature stable” so doesn’t freeze which keeps the ice off the eyes.  I’ll try and find it and post a pic later after work. 

[smerchly]

I've tried everything from mineral oil to vaseline  which works for a short span . The paste (T.S.) sounds like a proven product .  I have an old tin of Dubbin , used to protect leather boots , then there's mink oil , seal oil and fish oil ......  Next visit to my local tackle shop , I'll check out .

[Tyler0420]

5 hours ago, Tyler0420 said:

It’s a paste and I jus rub it on the eyes. I think they call it “temperature stable” so doesn’t freeze which keeps the ice off the eyes.  I’ll try and find it and post a pic later after work. 

 

[DaveC]

Ice off paste works good most days, I cover my rod and guides in it as well as my float...still on the coldest days I'm dipping the rod tip. Ive seen guys like Steelee fish those spiral wrapped baitcasters better than pins and really reach some long casts. All Ive ever been able to do with them is a birds nest...lol. Like everything practice.

[corsara]

I'm gonna be buying some of the paste for sure!

Went down to the river today.  Figured out my baitcaster, now I can do super long casts as long as there are no trees.  Works great with the thrill stops, although by the end of the day the thrill stop started sliding too much, hand-tightening didn't help.  So I did one of those "stopper knot" things, which helped (didn't want to break everything off just to put a new thrill stop).  I'm much happier with the baitcaster setup after today.  I can drift for miles!   Even caught a nice brown trout, first fish using this method.  Can't be happier!

[corsara]

Hmm... did a quick search for Loon Outdoors - Stenley's Ice Off Paste, can't find it online from a Canadian reseller....might have to order from the US, hope the icy weather holds off until it arrives.   If anybody finds a place that sells it in Canada, pls let us all know

[Tyler0420]

My buddy gave me mine so not sure where it’s coming from. Doesn’t look like freezing temperatures for the next two weeks.  

[corsara]

Alright, did some more search.  Cabela Canada sells it.  So do some other places, google "Loon Outdoors - Stanley's Ice Off Paste canada".   Thanks again for the recommendation, I'll be buying some to give it a test drive this winter.

[smerchly]

1 hour ago, Tyler0420 said:

My buddy gave me mine so not sure where it’s coming from. Doesn’t look like freezing temperatures for the next two weeks.  

 

  Yes , a little warm for the end of Nov....saw a few dew worms a few minutes ago .....nuts !

How about some of the "old" stuff ,  like dubbin or mink oil ? ...Looks like that Ice Off paste would do the trick .  Our local tackle shops may have that or a good product that has been proven effective ...

Talking about drifting the 3 way rigs for trout ,  I noticed some using 13' to 15' rods that are very flexible . I like the idea of fighting a nice fat bow with these rods , but since the current runs about 10 - 15km./hour , there would be a sizable bow in the line  & up to a 6' lead at the 3 way swivel , with a very lively rod , it would be a task to get a good hook set ?? I have witnessed some fish hooked only for a second or two , then off they went .

[DaveC]

7 hours ago, corsara said:

Hmm... did a quick search for Loon Outdoors - Stenley's Ice Off Paste, can't find it online from a Canadian reseller....might have to order from the US, hope the icy weather holds off until it arrives.   If anybody finds a place that sells it in Canada, pls let us all know

Got mine @ Sail

[corsara]

13 hours ago, DaveC said:

Got mine @ Sail

Visited Sail in Burlington this morning.  They didn't have the "Ice Off" paste, although they had other Loon Outdoors products. Guy at the counter said they don't stock it anymore, and he had equal success with regular lip balm.  Hmm.  Anyway, left with a new jacket and bib for the winter, new hat, bunch of beads, hooks, socks, multi-tool knife thingy...  I feel like a kid in a candy store there.  

On a separate note:  do baitcaster rods in the 13-14ft in 3 pieces (like a centerpin rod) even exist?  Although I enjoyed working my 10ft baitcaster yesterday, I feel I can really use an extra meter added to the length when float fishing.

[steellee]

I know you can get rods in the 11'6 range for the baitcast technique from Loomis, rapala, raven off the top of my head. It's becoming more popular so maybe some 13' or so are out but I haven't seen them from a factory. The problem with that length is you almost need to be spiral wrapped or the torque over that length of rod is going to want to twist the rod when fighting fish. . The line will actually run beneath the blank when you see this happen. Most that length you see are custom builds. It's pretty easy to have someone convert a 13-14 to spiral wrap in most cases. Might be the way to go. Also a word of advice a rod like this feels heavy in hand as you don't have a 10 oz centerpin on the bottom to balance it out like a traditional float setup. Try putting your baitcaster on a 13' with sliding rings upside down and you ll see what I mean. All that being said it's a perfectly fine alternative to centerpins if you find the right setup

[corsara]

2 minutes ago, steellee said:

I know you can get rods in the 11'6 range for the baitcast technique from Loomis, rapala, raven off the top of my head. It's becoming more popular so maybe some 13' or so are out but I haven't seen them from a factory. The problem with that length is you almost need to be spiral wrapped or the torque over that length of rod is going to want to twist the rod when fighting fish. . The line will actually run beneath the blank when you see this happen. Most that length you see are custom builds. It's pretty easy to have someone convert a 13-14 to spiral wrap in most cases. Might be the way to go. Also a word of advice a rod like this feels heavy in hand as you don't have a 10 oz centerpin on the bottom to balance it out like a traditional float setup. Try putting your baitcaster on a 13' with sliding rings upside down and you ll see what I mean. All that being said it's a perfectly fine alternative to centerpins if you find the right setup

Thanks!  I understand the concerns with the rod not balancing well in the hand, I think I could be fine with this.  So, just to make sure I understand the suggestion:  a 13-14ft rod originally designed for centerpin, can be converted to spiral wrap and used with a baitcaster instead, is that right?

[steellee]

Yes easily. The 13' I have is actually a 13', 4 pc shimano clarus too. All I did was rewrap the 3 guides on piece #2 in a spiral pattern shifting the line gradually to the bottom guides, the 4th  guide that is on piece #3 makes up the full transition to the line being on the bottom guides. I also cut the cork back from the top and put on a casting reel seat with a nice short foregrip. It probably took an hour or or so all told and I took it off the rod dryer and was fishing with it the next morning. Later on after a few trips I realized the guides were too small and rewrapped the 4-5 last guides with a larger minima style guide much better for winter. The whole thing was basically a project I wanted too try with a gift card I had, a rod on sale, and components I already had laying around. If you do go this route make sure the float rod you choose has medium or low frame guides or you won't get a nice transition or need to rewrap the entire rod.  It does have a time and place but I prefer my 10'6 it's just a much nicer feeling rod.