Rattle snakes ???

[knightfisher]

Hey guys I was reading some older posts, dated back in Aug 04.

Had to do with fishing behind GM.

IBC mentioned there were rattle snakes there. Is this true. I take

my young daughter there from time to time, and I sure as hell

don't want to put her in harms way.

Daniel

[smerchly]

I've seen piles of garder snakes in the rocks near gate 12 and the odd milk snake......never seen one with a rattle on it !

[knightfisher]

smerchly.

My daughter is sort of a tomboy. When she gets bored fishing

she starts exploring. She caught a garder snake and

showed me and of course said can I keep it, pleaseeeee.

So we put it in the aquarium at home and two days later

we have 16 snakes

Any ways as stated earlier, I am concerned if there are in

fact rattlers there. Thats all I need, ''Look what I caught dad"

[PickerelHunter]

Knightfisher...the snakes likely to be back there are a different form of snake that is totally harmless but makes that rattle noise as it's defence mechanism. It's not actually a rattle either, but the tail does look like a rattle, makes a rattle noise when it bangs against a rok or rubs up against something...can't remember the specifics. I read about this in an article last year before I ventured out to GM (having read posts about rattlesnakes). Having said that, take this information lightly and be very careful, especially with a young one, because there may very well be the missisauga rattlesnake somewhere in there, but from what I've read it's most likely the other one (I think it's called a milk snake). Here's a link to my post of this from last year...maybe you'll find it useful http://www.niagarafishing.net/forums/index...c=3668&hl=snake

Wearing boots well help ease some doubts too because they'll tend to bite lower.

[Guest canadadude]

fished there for years never seen any rattlers there, I wouldn't be to concerned but why don't you teach your young ones to leave the snakes alone and educate them on the missasaga rattler, I think its better then that the young people enjoy the wilderness and leave the creatures in the wild!! I will never understand why people have to take snakes and such home just to please there whinny little brats leave the animals alone in there own enviroment and stop ruining the enviroment!! To you its just a gardner snake but to to the snake you F#####ed her life and the babies!! If you and your kids are going to destroy animals habitat why don't you just stay home

[jjcanoe]

I wouldn't be to concerned but why don't you teach your young ones to leave the snakes alone and educate them on the missasaga rattler, I think its better then that the young people enjoy the wilderness and leave the creatures in the wild!! I will never understand why people have to take snakes and such home just to please there whinny little brats leave the animals alone in there own enviroment and stop ruining the enviroment!! To you its just a gardner snake but to to the snake you F#####ed her life and the babies!! If you and your kids are going to destroy animals habitat why don't you just stay home

Chill out Canadadude! we all had wild "pets" as kids, it's part of growing up.

jjcanoe

[Skunker]

Good point JJ.

We lived near some bush when growing up and can tell you if it was there we came home with it at some time or another. Mom wasn't too pleased though, but put up with two boys seeking out nature.

It's a part of childs growing up.

[Guest canadadude]

My parents taught me at a young age to leave the wild in the wild where it belongs and I do have a problem with parents taking animals from the forest to cage them up!! Most of the time they look at them for a couple days then forget about them!! It's just a waste of nature sorry for the strong feelings but I really think it's important for adults to teach kids to leave nature as they found it and that animals should live in ther natural habitats "look but don't touch" is still drilled in my head!!

[knightfisher]

Thanks all. I feel better now.

Hey Canadadude I respect your viewpoint and the way you were brought up.

However not all kids are brats. And saying that parents bring animals home and

forgeting them is a generalization. How many parents do you know personally

that do this, 20,50,100 ?

I think it is very very few parents that let children bring criters home. And while I

am sure you are right a few parents do forget about the criters, not all are like that.

A few years ago I was working near Jordan, and at lunch, my helper and I noticed

some frog eggs, so we took a few and put them in my pond, as a suprise to my daughter.

Well they developed into tadpoles, but did not turn into frogs that year. The next spring

these same tadpoles were now 4-5 inches long. I never saw anything like it. Checked it

out and found it it was bullfrogs eggs and some times it takes two years to develope.

Called my daughters school, St. Peters, and told them what I had, and was invited to bring

them in, to show the class. My helper and I did that and brought a small goldfish from my

pond as a comparison. The kids and teaches loved it. Took pictures, and the kids came up

in small groups as we talked about the large tadpoles. Most of these kids will never ever

see, anything like this. They were returned to the pond and turned into frogs and lived there

for a few years. The way I see it in this example, the were thousands of eggs and we took

a few. In the wild they get eaten by all kind of animals and fish. These few made it, but more

importantly gave alot of children a whole lot of joy and excitement and a reality on something

they may never see first hand.

I agree with you Canadadude people generally should not disrupt the wild life.

But what are we doing when we catch and release a fish and it doesn't make it and dies.

I thinks children should be allowed to be kids and explore and bring things home as jj

and skunker said. A few kids taking a few critters home is not upsetting the balance

of nature. Now if you want to talk about global warming or urban development affecting

wild life, then we have the real culprits

[emenius]

alright, now what you gotta realize is that the Massasuaga rattle snake *not missasaug* is native in the gorge/glen in Niagara Falls, and along the Bruce Trail in sparse numbers all the way up to Tobermory. but you will not see them unless you do some serious bushwacking. that is a heavily travelled area people are in and out of there so often that the snakes are in the deep woods there. personally i would be more worried about crossing a rattle snake in the wainfleet marsh.

not that long ago i lead a group of about 10 friends intothe bush to find the west enterance to the blue ghost tunnel and it was for a really long time, and we did not see anything and that was some serious making our own trail kinda thing.

to answer your question yes they are there, but to see one is one hell of a challenge. good luck and good fishing.

[Guest FisherNick]

My parents taught me at a young age to leave the wild in the wild where it belongs and I do have a problem with parents taking animals from the forest to cage them up!! Most of the time they look at them for a couple days then forget about them!! It's just a waste of nature sorry for the strong feelings but I really think it's important for adults to teach kids to leave nature as they found it and that animals should live in ther natural habitats "look but don't touch" is still drilled in my head!!

Your problem is just that. If I had a kid and you called them whiny brats I would have a problem with you.

Look you are entitled to your opinion but dont flame others for what theirs it.

[Guest LineLess]

not mean to scare you or anything, but iwas down at the whirlpool last spring, and i was walking the trail of the far side of the whirly, and when i stopped to have a smoke, i could swear i heard a sound of a rattlers tail shake thing; i dont think i ran that fast before.

[Guest _YO_]

Rattle snakes are very defensive. If you startle one, it will most likely hold it's ground and curl up into a very intimidating pose and start making lots of noise. Snakes don't want anything to do with anything bigger than them. If you do ever startle a rattler, you'll know it, you probably won't even see it right away. It'll let you know that you're too close long before you need to. Don't quote me on this, but most snakes can only strike targets that are within about 50% of their total length. A 4 foot snake would have a hard time hitting you unless you got way too close (good luck finding a snake that long around here) If your daughter ever was to come across one, I'm sure she would be frightened by it's display. I startled a snake in the Whirlpool one day that was about 3 feet long, but not a rattler. I think it was a Hog snake. They put on a very agressive display, but are pretty much harmless. Trust me though, the way this snake was hissing and showing off, I got out of there fast. The only person on the face of the planet that wouldn't be frightened by an agressive display by any snake is Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter. CRIKEY!!! If she sees a snake hissing aggressively, she's gonna scream and run. Keep taking your daughter fishing, it's good for both of you. Make sure she knows about the dangers and that you (obviously) always know where she is when you're out.

[smerchly]

I still believe there are rattle snakes in the gorge . ......so many places to hide . All snakes like to sun themselves , and a walking trail is perfect for them , so be wary when walking the trails . There was a small rattler sunning itself right where a tent was pitched at the French River and it was almost invisible while curled up amongst the leaves . I got a picture of it from abot 6 ft . away and we left it alone ,but put a warning out to the marina operator etc. to be ware of campsites as well as rocky areas. I have no fear of snakes but respect they have a place here as we do . Just a thought.....where I live now , across the road was this pond with bullrushes ......We liked to hear the frogs singing at night and watch the red-winged black birds build there nests there . Now , there are houses sitting there and all we hear is the traffic now.............Progress !

[Guest IBC]

Gate 12 ... rattlers are back there, a few ofthe guys i saw there regularly would update me on if they have seen em ... they arent common, i heard a rattle one day and booted it like no other for a quick 50 yard dash, no idea if it was a rattler, a faux rattler or the wind, no need to find out. As long as your on the beaten path you should be fine, but venturing from the well worn in trails you increase the likelyhood of finding one. Theres a ton of food in there for them to eat. Mind you there chances greater that you would run into a coyote down there than a rattler. Knightfisher, I would reccomend not letting her venture too far from you, some morons love to let their extra large dogs run loose back in there on the walks ... ive never encountered a problem, but i do my best to maintain a low profile to them.

[JAMIE]

We ran into a rattler last summer at the Glen .Just leave them alone and they will leave you alone.As a kid we used to see them all the time up at the cottage in but that was a long time ago .We also saw bears,moose ,deer, coons ,fox,on a regular basis too not any more,but like everything now a days with more and more people devoloping in rual areas with no respect the wild life keeps getting pushed further and further away.Canadude you have a point but a little harsh Maybe if more parents got there kids to take an intrest in nature maybe we wouldnt have so many kids hagging out at the mall or racing around in there rice burners with fart can exhausts or beating another kid to death for his coat compare this to keeping a garder snake in an aquarium .

[Jason B]

Its simple, leave them alone and they will leave you alone. But if i hear a rattle i'm outta there.

[smerchly]

I checked out "rattlesnake ontario" on google and there's lots of info with pictures of both the massasauga and timber rattlesnakes . There are groups of people who are keeping close watches on their populations and locations . Many of these snakes are killed on the roads like hwy 6 and many were lost to the bulldozer for building housing and shopping malls . I saw a dead one on a stone road in Parry Sound . There are people who think it's fun to run over them with a car as well as turtles and small animals .......but not skunks ,of course .....wouldn't want to stink up the car ! Check that site out and see the diff. between the rattlers and the milk snake and the fox snake ! Now that most of us have digi cameras ....with zoooooom lenses.......we can help these groups out with info on the snakes locations if you happen to see one while out fishing .

[pike007]

I have been fishing gm for years and never even seen a garden snake.

Plenty of skeeeeters in the summer though.

007

[dr_feelgood]

Another from Dallas

Thats a good point smerch everybody want to hit and kill inocent critter that are just trying to get to the other side,but i have hit a skunk on an on ramp to the highway in grimsby at night didn't see it but i also didn't break the sack ,i only popped its head it made a huge poppping sound

Dallas aka frghtlnr

[Dan Andrews]

Last Year around early June me and my whiney little brats were fishing a pond in Stevensville. On the way out we noticed a tiny turtle sunning himself on a rock so we quickly scooped him up with some weeds and brought him home and put him in a small aquarium. We looked up it's variety on the internet and tried to educate ourselves on what it eats, its range etc. This little guy developed quite a personality and entertained the kids all summer in the dining room window where it was partially shaded except its rock and it had plenty of weeds to eat as well as water bugs from our ditch for companions.

Come early fall we decided to say goodbye and put him back where he came from. There were alot less turtles now then when we got him. Probably saved him from the herons and we learned something as well as having the brats earn a little respect for them. There won't be any .177 cal pellets pumped into the turtles here .

Hey knightfisher don't worry about the PETA prosects in here. Just make sure you know its a gardener and not something endangered before you bother it. Nows the time to teach the young ones about nature before they learn to spend all their time talking on the phone or listening to their mp3 player. I always handle the snakes down in the gorge and take the time to admire them and show the kids before letting it slither off. Otherwise I'd just keep telling them "hey you should have seen that snake"!

[smerchly]

About 10 yrs.ago , my dog was barking at something under the large apple tree in the back yard . I went out to see what all the commotion was , and there was a huge snake ! It was all coiled up , and the tail was vibrating and I got the little doggie (120 lb. Rottie) in the house and went back out and caught the snake and put it into a 5 gal.pail . I called a serpentarian place in Welland and described the snake in detail . I figured someone had a rattler for a pet and it escaped to my yard ! After a good description ......I was relieved to know it was a milk snake and they will vibrate their tail . They told me to let it go in the country and I found a nice small creek with private land to release it . That snake wouldn't have much of a chance here in the city with the heavy traffic on this street . I have a pic. of it in the pail and it nearly got a piece of me when I moved in close to get a shot of it , so I put a piece of window glass over the pail to get the picture . Here's a close up of a garter snake which is the most common snake in this area.........

this is the boy who liked my apples (milk snake)

and this guy ,with the cats eyes , is the massasauga rattle snake ....note the blunt nose .....the writer said the rattle sounds like a bee buzzing in a cup ....a high pitch compared to other rattlers .

These creatures are feared by many people , but as a kid , we saw many snakes while walking the streams of Effingham , the 12 mile , the gorge at Jordan & Niagara etc.....They are part of our "system" and do their part to balance out nature . The only snake I did fear was the black water snakes that would strike you if you swam too close . They have came right out to a boat while fishing , either curious of you , or thinking the boat was just a big log . Just shoosh them away and they will go

BTW......I heard a russling in some blueberry bushes in P.Sound .....very rocky .....and the camp owner said the rattlers like to hide under them ,so take a stick and shake the bush before sticking your hand in there ........now ,I'm gettin paranoid

[Skunker]

Your friend was bit by one? I belive the Massasauga IS a poisonous snake.

Are you sure it wasn't a milk snake or a water snake? I have seen many water snakes down there in the 25 years I've been going down to the gorge but never a rattler.

[Guest Rockfish]

Thanks for the pics and info Smerch, the Massasaugas are more common in the Muskokas, there is Massasauga Provincial Park in MacTier, I got some info on them when I was there.....

[Guest _YO_]

Yeah, watersnakes are pretty mean. They get big too. I've seen'em over 3 feet long and thick. Startle one of those guys and you could get a nasty bite. I know a few people that have been bit by common water snakes and they all bled.

Massasauga rattlers are poisonous. If you were to be bit by one, you'd need medical attention. It won't kill you unless you have an allergic reaction or you completely avoid seeking medical attention.