jjcanoe Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 as for live bait ban it will take years ... 3 words... Emerald Ash Borer Emergency measures were taken within weeks of discovering the Emerald Ash Borer in Ontario from Michigan.. The solution? Cut down every ash tree in a 10 km wide swath from Lake St. Clair to Lake Erie and BAN the movement of all firewood from the infected areas. This tree cutting party did not just take place in woodlots but along city streets and Private property as well. This is the sort of extreme power the Gov't has in this type of situation which basically amounts to tree genocide. The invasion was not stopped by this measure and southern Ontario will be devoid of ALL species of Ash trees within the next 10 or so years. Don't think a bait ban can't happen, it will, and it's coming. Sorry. We'll be down to leeches, worms and grasshoppers within a few short years. jjcanoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canadadude Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 If this is true say goodbye to almost every southern Ontario Woodlot! Most area woodlots are comprised mainly of ash trees From white ash,black ash and red ash!!! This will truly be devestating to the area I have to find out more about this!! This will make Dutch Elm Disease look like alittle cold!! Although the elm trees are starting to come back!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishmaster Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 . have also over the years bought bait from different places that had baby sunnies, rockies, perch, cats in the mix here and there Well if you are see this in your bait bucket it because these lazy asses are not gradeing there bait ...me myself grade my bait at the location where i catch the bait ...and also at the store under good lighting to make sure there is no other bait in the tank beside shinners or the bait im trying to harvest..the dump part the MNR makes us do is if we have a net full of gobbies we are spose to put them back in the water they came from ...you would think they would want us to deposit them in the garbage not back into the water ..... Did you guy no that if you catch your own bait and you have microscopic eggs caught in your net they can transported to the next place you use your net ..even we have to freeze our nets wash them with boiling hot water or hang dry them for 48 hrs after each use ...now does everyone that catchs there own bait do this .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwl Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 great point , thanks for the info, that one should be in the Regs book right along with the restrictions on net/trap sizes and possession limit ect...too bad all the supposably reputable bait harvesters weren't as up on thier business as you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 You can put all the regs you can think of in the book......double the thickness if you want , but too many people do not read the regs or understand them . As Rob pointed out at the meeting in Stevensville , the NYS reg book is about a third the size of ours with across the state regs which are easy to understand . Ontario is much larger , agreed , but you have a lot of complicated regs to figure out with all the different boundry lines ....now there are more new lines like hwy 401 & 402 for bait regs. I can see our reg books being thicker than the TO phone book soon If minnows have this disease (infection) wouldn't they be dying by the millions .....they look dam healthy to me. Makes me wonder if that bunch of fanatics with all the big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ( peettah) have been lining some pockets......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D McV Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I do think it's good to take precautions sooner that later. however I also don't see a problem with using bait from the upper river in the lower river when you know it's the same water and anything that is in the upper is also in the lower river aswell. One of the problems with our government is that alot of their work is subcontracted out to under educated workers. jjcanoe had mentioned the Ash Borer and how there were so many ash trees cut down, what alot of people don't realize is that hundreds of walnut trees were also cut down by mistake because the contractors doing the work were mistaking the walnut trees for ash trees. I work as a landscape exterminator but don't work with trees that much, but I can tell the differance between these trees in a second as I'm sure alot of you who read this could do aswell. I guess what I'm getting at is maybe they aren't sure what they are doing but trying to figure it out before they f#@* up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishmaster Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 War is ON ...News Press has all been informed MPP starting a Petetion ..stay tuned ...and yes all Harvesters From Niagara River to Lake St Clair are no longer aloud to catch bait ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwl Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 does this mean anglers, or commercial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canadadude Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm sure the catching of Minnows is restricted to commercial bait catchers for now!! But don't get caught transporting anything past the 401!! In fact it is I guess the only way to get bait around here now I wish I knew more about thie virus and how it is affecting the fish stocks!! I think it is a shame to put hard working indviduals out of a job with out some more concrete facts At the very least the government should compensate the commercial bait industry they are destroying!!! I mean if you destroy a mans livlyhood in one day,I feel he is deserving of compensation, I know this won't put minnows in our buckets but perhaps a few dollars for the harvesters who have money invested in there operations that are now destroyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishmaster Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 This mean Commercail right now ...but when the 2007 regs come out i think you will see angler's also the way i was told today by the MNR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-hamilton Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 there are still a few shops south of the 401 (in the niagara/grimsby/hamilton area) that possess licenses above the 401. not all hope is lost for bait. however, expect prices to rise up, up, up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwl Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 wow what's next, no commercial fishing at all, after all if what they are worried about is the effects of certain diseases and thier spread, then what does that mean, if commercial fishermen, find as part of thier catch, a few fish have a disease that are in the same net, or cargo hold as thousands of other fish, does that mean that thier whole catch is potentailly exposed to whatever, so they have to destroy huge numbers of fish. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the harm that can be caused from transporting live fish from one place to another especially fragile inland water ecosystems but to totally ban the catching and use of live baitfish doesn't make much sense if the threat of disease is already in the water way anyhow, and the baitfush that live there as well, what are they going to do, try to totally eliminate the biatfish that live in a body of water because they think it will curb the spread of disease, doesn't make much sense for somebody to say you can't catch bait some where like the Niagara river for example, then fish with it, in an area where there are huge clouds of the same bait already swimming around. What are they trying to do, put all the harvesters out of business, so they can some how say, alright only we the government are the only ones allowed to harvest and sell baitfish in Ontario. I don't think they think of the "fall out" from the whole deal for sure...no commercial harvesting -> no liscence fees collected from harvesters -> loss of revenue to bait shoppe owners =loss of revenue to the municipalites they are in -> loss the whole economy generated by all the spin off sportfishing brings across the province( tourism, purchasing of boats, vehicles to tow said boats, fuel, insurance, any fishing related gear, holiday retreats) and so on and so on....all from a little fish the size of your pinky. Sorry to hear the bad news for you and alike , hope that you guys can band together and help educate some of these so called educators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 hey steve ......... you would think that these so called GOV. experts would talk to some of you guys ...bait harvesters sellers to find out where the real problem is , maybe taking samples of each harvest locations. at least involving you guys in the process since your on the front lines . honest dealers need to be protected from such CRAP, LIVELY HOODS depend on being able to work with the powers that be to find a workable soloution . if something comes up please let us know how we as fishermen can HELP !!!! joe and pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packrat Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Made a reply to this post right behind Steves post about the ban on harvesting minnows(commercially). Dont know if I hit the submit button thingy or not. Hope this topic can get pinned so it doesnt get lost in the archives----just too hot a subject to let slide. I wish I was more eloquent with words or knowlegable to express my disgust at the way our government handles our affairs. Someone mentioned a potential ban on leeches???---its already in place as far as where the bait dealers can import them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packrat Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjcanoe Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 there are still a few shops south of the 401 (in the niagara/grimsby/hamilton area) that possess licenses above the 401 They can still collect up there and bring the bait south to the peninsula however the travel costs will be rightfully passed on to the end customer (fishermen and women) As far as the average Joe angler moving bait around, just don't go north with it. Buy all your bait from local sources (as in the area you will be fishing in) The gov't will not be able to stop the spread of this disease any better than it stopped the SARS outbreak or the Emerald Ash Borer, Zebra mussel or any other invasive species for that matter. ( how long have they been fighting the sea Lamprey in the upper lakes?) EDUCATION NOT REGULATION. jjcanoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packrat Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Buy all your bait from local sources (as in the area you will be fishing in) If I read the news release properly from the MNR---there wont BE any minnows available south of the 401--at least from the bait shops. Couple things of note--- A---this is supposed to be for the 2007 winter fishing season??? B-- "Quote"-Restrictions on the use of live bait fish are necessary while the more comprehensive plan is being developed. This is really the scary part because you cant tell what they are likely to come up with and furthermore you probably wont be able to input anything into their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canadadude Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 The other scary part is they really havn't explained what this virus will do,how far it's spread I mean it seems to me the M.N.R is being very tight lipped about the whole problem!!!They just shut down the bait industry, and now as always will hide under there desks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gill Finigan Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 here's a bit of info on the virus What is VHS? Viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS) virus is a serious pathogen of fresh and saltwater fish that is causing an emerging disease in the Great Lakes region of the United States and Canada. VHS virus is a rhabdovirus (rod shaped virus) that affects fish of all size and age ranges. It does not pose any threat to human health. VHS can cause hemorrhaging of fish tissue, including internal organs, and can cause the death of infected fish. Once a fish is infected with VHS, there is no known cure. Not all infected fish develop the disease, but they can carry and spread the disease to other fish. VHS has been blamed for fish kills in Lake St. Clair (MI), Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and Conesus Lake (Western NY). The World Organization of Animal Health has categorized VHS as a transmissible disease with the potential for profound socio-economic consequences. Because of this, they list VHS as a disease that should be reported to the international community as an exceptional epidemiological (study of diseases in large populations) occurrence. Fish species included as carriers are: Atlantic cod, black crappie, bluegill, bluntnose minnow, brown bullhead, brown trout, burbot, channel catfish, chinook salmon, coho salmon, chum salmon, emerald shiner, freshwater drum, gizzard shad, grayling, haddock, herring, Japanese flounder, largemouth bass, muskellunge, Pacific cod, northern pike, pink salmon, pumpkinseed, rainbow trout, redhorse sucker, rock bass, rockling, round goby, smallmouth bass, sprat, turbot, walleye, white bass, white perch, whitefish and yellow perch. Additional fish may be added to the order as they are confirmed to be carriers of this disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canadadude Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thanks Gill for the update at least now I understand how serious this virus is perhaps the ban of Baitfish maybe a good idea untill we get a grasp on the extent of the problem!!! I mean if this virus makes its way into a smaller northern lake it could perhaps do serious harm to the populations!!!I don't think we have heard the last of the problems VHS may bring this may just be the tip of the iceburg!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canadadude Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Robbie explain who is going to make all these $$$$$$$ you keep talking about!!! Certainly not the comercial harvesters that are forced out of business or is the bait buisness run by some underworld organised crime ring sending kickbacks to the M.N.R !!!!! Some dude on lake Simcoe is the don of the organised emerald shinner ring trying to get a Monopoly on the minnow sales in Southern Ontario Give me a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassmaster Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I haven't really looked at this issue indepth until this morning. I just looked at the official release by the MNR. So if I'm reading this right, basically the days of going to my local bait shop and buying minnows is all but over in Southern Ontario. This obviously has far reaching implications on the whole angling community. This decision by the MNR will have a ripple effect, boat dealers, marinas, tourism will all suffer a big hit. Depending how my new business goes I actually thought about finding a decent used boat so I can actually enjoy the perch fishery on Erie and other places instead of being stuck on shore. I'm certainly going to think twice before I do that. Good thing I bought some waders last year, I guess I will have to hit my minnow hole on the Grand before I go fishing this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gill Finigan Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Didn't take that from the MNR. I looked at sources in the US and Europe. Google it up and see how much is there from sources world wide. People asked Questions to what it was and what it effected so i took 3 mins and looked it up. If you notice i never even expressed my opinion on the MNR's rule. I think harvesters here should be able to catch bait to be sold in the effected area for use here only. It's no more likely that someone who catches there own won't transport them north as if they had bought them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Right on Gill .....I did some Googling on invasive species -great lakes , & in minutes found a quick summary of it . In the 20th century alone we have 87 aquatic invasives i.d . in our lakes........some of the latest are , rusty cray fish , spinywater flea, goby , ruffe, lamprey , white perch , zebra & quagga mussel , and now the vhs and the forthcomming asian carp ! And there will be more for sure .Do you think maybe that there could be people out there who would like to see our billion dollar fishing industry collapse ? Nah....we are too nice eh ? Me thinks we can't stop this from spreading ....it is already established and as the world pop. get bigger , millions more ships will be out there bringing every creature with them ......Can we make sure every ship is clean ? Don't think so .......as Rob said .....$$$$$$ chinga chinga $$$$$$ .....bottom line . .......then we have the toxic pollution issues .......another story........ Catch'em while you can !!!!!! Just on the news....China is using 3 million barrels of oil a day ......just the tip of the iceberg to come ......remember the good old days when gas was only a buck a litre ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishmaster Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Glad i have lots of minnows stocked up ice is on the way ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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