Rudd?

[hammercarp]

Reminds me of a koi

Koi have barbels. That fish doesn't.

[steve-hamilton]

all i know is it hit a spinner fishing for walleye.

[Erik.T.]

But goldfish cant extend their mouths like a carp they have normal non-sucking mouths and some species of koi do not have barbels due to selective breeding.

[hammercarp]

But goldfish cant extend their mouths like a carp they have normal non-sucking mouths and some species of koi do not have barbels due to selective breeding.

It is a cross breed with carp, hence the mouth like a carp.

Koi are not a separate species of carp. They are cyprinus carpio exactly the same as common carp except for being selectively bred for colour. We have never selectively bred an animal to create a separate species.

[Erik.T.]

Ah I stand corrected, thank you.

[Erik.T.]

Sorry for all of the comments but I am now positive that that IS a Quillback hence the silvery colour and the barbelless (carpy) mouth.

[hammercarp]

If Steve could have got it to hold it's dorsal erect that would make that clear. It does have what appears to be a bar through the eye like a quillback. But I still think it looks like a hybrid. They can have a light colour to them as well.

[Erik.T.]

Also see how the mouth is further back from the snout this is also a characteristic of a Quillback. yes it could still be a goldfish carp hybrid.

[Dan Andrews]

The OFAH confirmed it was a Rudd today. If you catch one be sure to gather the facts such as depth, exact location, bait, bottom composition or what ever you can get and report it to the invading species hotline. A link can be found at http://ofah.org

Don't forget to retain it for the OMNR but be sure to report it right away as not to get busted for possession and follow storage procedures.

The information you provide is just as valuable as information off of jaw tags or reports of endangered species and it helps the OMNR with the resource. Without us the Ministry would have allot bigger job than they could possibly handle.

[Tom Chopin]

There is thousands of those Rudds in Niagara River, where they surpirsed you caught it? They are around almost every marina on the american side....

[smerchly]

Maybe those carp aren't too choosie who they take out for dinner...... I caught this red carp about 45 yrs.ago near Niag. on the Lake & my dad stuffed it (full of sawdust) . We just called it a golden carp ....check out the fins on this guy.......( a little dusty )

[hammercarp]

Maybe those carp aren't too choosie who they take out for dinner...... I caught this red carp about 45 yrs.ago near Niag. on the Lake & my dad stuffed it (full of sawdust) . We just called it a golden carp ....check out the fins on this guy.......( a little dusty )

Oh my god! You killed bubbles my lost pet goldfish.

[steve-hamilton]

just a FYI, i was told the fish i posted was a Quillback, but i wanted to throw the photo out and see what ya'll suggested....

Quillback is what I was told anyway....

[dunder]

There is thousands of those Rudds in Niagara River, where they surpirsed you caught it? They are around almost every marina on the american side....

It was a Women fishing next to us that caught it. I was interested in what she caught. I had never seen seen a live one before and wasn't familiar with the area it was caught, so, I guess I was surprised to find out it was a Rudd. A nice looking fish and apparently a trophy one at that. There are people who would give thier right nut to land one that size

(Invasive or not).

[schertzing]

We catch those rudd all the time in the Welland River. They swim in schools of about 6 - 10 at a rather fast pace. To bad its an invasive fish they are really cool to look at. Some of them have crazy super bright red fins. Ohh and they like to make a croaking sound kinda like sheephead.

[hammercarp]

Mark

Thanks for starting an interesting thread. I enjoyed reading the input and seeing the different fish pics that the post started.

I think those rudd are here to stay. Seems to me they are well entrenched in the lower great lakes.

[steve-hamilton]

are quillback part of the carp family? or are they another species?

strange to see them.

i do remember a huge, strange lookin dorsal fin on it.

[Erik.T.]

They are closely related to carp but are in the family known as "carpsuckers"

[hammercarp]

Steve I have seen pictures of them caught by other anglers and they were all smaller than the one you got. Did you get a weight on it.

[Erik.T.]

Hammer are quills native to Canada and to what parts?

[hammercarp]

This is from the Ohio Dept. of Natural Resources.

"Habitat and Habits

Northern quillback carpsuckers are found only in Lake Erie and the first mile or two of some of its larger tributaries. They can be found throughout the lake but are most common in depths of 15-25 feet."

I read that they reach 26" in length. So I think Steve got a big one.

[Erik.T.]

Selective breeding has been used to create a "whole new species". The Goldfish for example was originally a fish called the prussian carp. The prussian carp was originally an olive colour other than that was almost exactly like the common carp besides the non-suckerish mouth, but there were mutations that made them gold/yellow. These yellow (goldfish) were bred further to create entirely new species of fish although still in the same carp family. For example the bubble eyed goldfish which is short, fatter, has no dorsal fin, a a double tail and large fluid filled sacs by the eyes. So yes this has been done before. And Hammer you said that a barbelless koi would be a whole new species, It would not .It would be a genetic mutation causing the fish to be part of group of a sub-species and so even these gold fish are sub-species so barbelless koi is possible however unlikely.

[hammercarp]

Selective breeding has been used to create a "whole new species". The Goldfish for example was originally a fish called the prussian carp. The prussian carp was originally an olive colour other than that was almost exactly like the common carp besides the non-suckerish mouth, but there were mutations that made them gold/yellow. These yellow (goldfish) were bred further to create entirely new species of fish although still in the same carp family. For example the bubble eyed goldfish which is short, fatter, has no dorsal fin, a a double tail and large fluid filled sacs by the eyes. So yes this has been done before. And Hammer you said that a barbelless koi would be a whole new species, It would not .It would be a genetic mutation causing the fish to be part of group of a sub-species and so even these gold fish are sub-species so barbelless koi is possible however unlikely.

You are right Eric. My definition of species was based on "old school" definitions. I thought that one species of animal could not breed with another species of animal and produce fertile offspring. Species in nature breed true . This was why I felt it applied to what we were talking about. After some reading, the new definition of species is much different than I thought and is still being debated. Thank you.

However I don't recall saying that a koi without barbels would be a new species. People are born with all sorts of abnormalities or mutations. Having six fingers or being an albino does not make them a new species. Koi are cyprinnus carpio the same species as common carp. Part of the definition of cyprinnus carpio"is having barbels".

This whole discussion on fish identification is interesting. In Hamilton Harbour we catch lots of different looking carp. This always produces interesting discussions in identifying them.

[hammercarp]

They are closely related to carp but are in the family known as "carpsuckers"

I think they are more closely related to suckers.

[Erik.T.]

I agree, they look pretty cool