Guest Steelheader Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I agree with Fishn-nut - If the NPC is going to start charging people for use of the ramp/docks, then we should expect that those monies are being funnelled back into maintenance of the road and facilities. Who knows, maybe this is something the NPC is fully prepared to do. We're just speculating right now, and maybe getting into a tizzy over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Laketrout Cuthbertson Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I got this from my contact in the NPC...... We have recently been made aware of the private businesses operating out of The Niagara Parks Commission facilities without compensation to The Parks. The docks require maintenance and will be pulled out as scheduled. We have talked to several charter operators and have asked them to organize themselves and set up a meeting with Dave Gillis as soon as possible. So it looks like the charter guys will have to pay up to run a bussiness out of Queenston. Remember the NPC does not get any government money!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steelheader Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Right, but how do we get them to pull the docks in summer rather than peak season? Charging the charters useage fees is a separate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Laketrout Cuthbertson Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I wonder what came first...... Did a charter guy see the post and contact the NPC,saying something like this "I make my living out of Queenston you can't take the docks out" or did the NPC already know, and pulling the docks was a way to get them to contact them hmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IBC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 not entirely. you put wear and tear on them, they need to be replaced. It also comes down to timing, there will be many guys with less to do (probably many laid off) during the winter season since you cant cut grass, trim trees, etc. If it gives a few guys a week or two more of paychecks let them pull em. Also what is the dammage to them that requires the docks being pulled, is it maybe structural and something that a little ice will wreck havock on or are some planks rotted ? I havent been down there in a while so I do not know myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishin-nut Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 For the NPC to say that they just found out about business using their launching facilities is just a bunch of malarky. When Brian Merritt was in charge he was full aware of what was taking place. So the lame excuse really dosn't jive with me. How about all the clubs that are running these tournaments on upper and lower river ? Will the NPC want compensistory from them. I think anyone that has anything to do with fishing should voice there opinion at this meeting. Any one here about this meeting. I also talked to a few charter boat guys they tell me that know one has talked to them about this issue. Everyone that I know learned off of this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steelheader Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Exactly. We just need to know when and where the meeting will be. By the sounds of it the NPC doesn't want a public forum...they want a small group of charters at a small private meeting. That's how it sounds from that email, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Laketrout Cuthbertson Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Heres the other email I got. with phone# We have recently been made aware of the private businesses operating out of the Niagara Parks Commission facilities without compensation to the Niagara Parks. The docks require maintenance and will be pulled out as scheduled. I have talked to several charter operators and have asked them to organize themselves and set up a meeting with me as soon as possible to address several matters such as liability issues that you place on the Commission, estimated compensation packages that the charters wish to pay for use of our private property and for the immediate problem, what can be done to save your charter season. Please contact me at 905-356-2241 ext 260 when the NPC can meet with charter operators. - Dave Gillis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bosc Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Just from reading the posts here and the email replies you guys received, my opinion is that it don't sound good for boaters using the ramp. If their concern is "several matters such as liability issues " my guess is we can see a fence here shortly with the guys that signed all off all 'liability issues' getting the key. We'll have to wait the outcome of the meeting, the parks Commission, the Township and Insurance company decisions. This all might take a year and they'll have to do something in the mean time to cover themselves. In this case a ramp provided by the province would be the solution. bosc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigfish1965 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Obviously the NPC needs to keep the docks in a reasonable state of repair. This of course involves the need to remove the docks from time to time. It is fairly certain that the winter would be the time to do these repairs since it would inconvenience the least number of people. That being said, I believe another solution is for the NPC to employ a dual dock system. One set for summer,one for winter. This way there are always repaired and ready docks available. The rest of the observations are speculation at this point. The NPC has always listened to our concerns in the past and are aware of our contribution to the local economy and they are aware of the importance of this dock. I agree that if commercial users are using this dock they should pony up, but I don't believe that an annual dock permit for EVERYONE is unreasonable. If everyone paid 40 bucks to use the launch for the year, it would help to keep the thing in better shape and allow the NPC to pay for the needed repairs/upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Longshank Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Lots of speculation here. I would think that if yo are really concerned, then call the number and express same, aslo if you want to attend meeting..... What i see out of this is that "free ramps and parking" are going the way of the Dodo bird. I know many of you take great care down there and pick up garbage, clean out the ramp from debris etc. and that is great, but not all do... It is the only launch we have on the river and really needs to be kept operational. I also don't think the 'bill" should fall entirely on the charter/guide services only.every user should ante up if this is where it's going Shank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishin-nut Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I agree with you 100% Longshank. It should not lie only on the shoulders of the handful of Guides . We should all have to pay . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IBC Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 there is no way they would be able to regulate who pays and doesnt without manning the launch. Something I doubt they would want to do. It wouldn't surprise me to see a fence with a garage door opener style device on it if they were going to get people to ante up. Maybe its time they consider adding another launch (near the mouth? there is that beach beside the big gazebo thing. It would be directly accross from the american one.) But then you get the problem of ice drifts .... just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Chopin Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I agree with paying a launch fee as long as the facilities are maintained. I'd be interested to see what they mean by the charter guys compensating the parks? I do a few charters down there but not sure how they would be able to differeniate between a charter, club tournament, or taking friends out for fun? It would also be very hard to man a booth to collect tolls year round? I think a ramp fee or season pass for everyone would not be unreasonable. Maybe they could channel that money into building a decent facility in Niagara on the Lake. I guess the alternative is to take our launching over to the U.S. side........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Laketrout Cuthbertson Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I guess the alternative is to take our launching over to the U.S. side........ 2293[/snapback] Tom last April I was thinking the same thing,I arrived at Queenston on a weekday mornin,early as usual. There was 3 boats tied to the dock. One boat there know one around it ,One boat was having a engine refit The other was a 14' can with 3 guys in it putting reels to rods ect. ect. I thought at that time it would be easier on the nerves to run over the border and launch down by the Fort. Might be a pain getting across the border the first week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest salmon Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Guess I will send them an email as well..I was looking forward to my first season of winter fishing down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishin-nut Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Well I just got off of the phone with Dave Gillis. The first question that I asked was who or which charter boat people did he speak too? The names that he gave me as far as I know (being in the business) were not charter boat people. Second question was why are they taking them out now? He said because of liability issues and that they are not being compensated for the use of there facilities, it's still NPC property and is defined as private property. Thats funny I don't remember seeing any private property signs. He had mentioned that they would like 15% from each trip from each charter boat to cover the cost of repairs. I had mentioned that they were being unfair to us and that why is this falling into our laps. Wouldn't it be wiser to just charge everyone for launching. His reply to this was that they were underman power and this was not feasible. I then mentioned about having somesort of membership the way city municipalities have where you pay $50-$90 for the year they give you some sort of pass where it has to be on your vehicle windsheild or stuck on the right handside of your boat trailer. Anyone not having this will get ticketed by NPC police. For Day trippers have something that they can purchase on line and be able to print this and display on their windsheild. He is willing to talk with us but time is running out he said he has some openings next week. If anyone is Interested please e-mail me so that we can get this matter resolved. I have already contacted some of the guides if I have missed you please e-mail. Another thing that I forgot to mention to him was does this also effect the upper launches if thats what you want to call them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigfish1965 Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 You can add me to the list if you like. I have enough exposure to get support on this issue. There is no reason why a seasonal pass cannot be generated and like was suggested accompanied by a window display tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Laketrout Cuthbertson Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Fishin-nut Ok he's taking the docks out. Is he leaving the ramp open for launching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishin-nut Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Yes the ramp will be open. But the point here is why do I have to forfeit 15% to NPC because of repair and liability and you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IBC Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 because you would be making a profit wheres Brian is not. You and your friends can play some soccer in a city park no problem, however you can not setup a tourny and charge people an entry fee when your not paying for the service of the park .... profiting at the expense of someone else is the way the NPC is seeing this. Your making money off of something they have provided you with (launch and dock) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigfish1965 Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 However,IBC, the NPC has no right to insist on a fee for service to one and not the other in this case since the charter causes no more wear and tear than does a private boat. In your example, a league requires maintenance above and beyond what some kids need to play around. Fishin-nut is quite correct in his assertion that it is impractical for the 10 or so charters to pay for the few hundred other boats. FishinNut already pays more towards government coffers than we do via increased taxes etc. Sounds like they are trying to hold the charter guys hostage and force them to pay everyone else's wy as well. Besides...how on earth would they know who was a charter and who wasn't??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chilli Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 So your suggesting that if I were to come over the border for a vacation in Niagara from NY, that I should have to go online or to some Gov office (during buss hours) to pay a fee before I go pleasure boating? It doesn't sound too inviting to me. Personnally, (and I don't even have a boat), I'd rather not offer the NPC a new cash grap by making an issue out of this. I'd deal with the inconvenience untill they put the docks back in. You guys have just screwed yourself outa a freeby as well as the tourists and that's probably at every ramp in the river that the NPC manages. I don't mean to be critical, but picture what it would have been like next year when they put the docks back in, if no one had said a thing and then picture it the way it's going to be. Now your going to pay more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fishingnut Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I would be willing to pay a fee for use of this dock as long as the NPC will enforce it and agree to repair and maintain the launch. Fishin-nut, from your communication with Dave how are they going to form a decision on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowbug Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I know a few guides who run trips out of the NPC Queenston launch but they do not advertise them selfs as guides.Why should these people be let off the hook?( no pun entended) All of these guides only use the launch and dock for a couple of minutes each day, the rest of the time they are on the water.( which I don't think the NPC owns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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