We Are The Problem And We Are The Solution...

[Fishdadee]

My gift today was being able to hike down to the whirlpool with my family on a beautiful, sunny spring day.

It was a bonus that the water was on the green side, with maybe 2 feet of vis which means a chance to dance with big river trout. I had my float rod and I had one hour.

We still would have went down had it been brown with rod in hands and kids with their walking sticks!! It matters not!!

Mom always has a smile for everyone walking by and hey, if you're reading this, you know what I'm talking about, you may have said ' hi ' like everyone else does because the glow is so contagious, as we all hike up or down that beautiful path.

That beautiful gorge.

That beautiful river.

Which begs my question.

'Why is there so much garbage'

I sincerely thought fishers and lovers of nature would shudder in horror at the thought of leaving a coffee cup on a rock, abandoned as litter.

As I thought fishers should never do.

Or discarding broken fishing monofilament or braided fishing line, leaving it dangling from brush to trip your brother or strangle an innocent creature.

As I thought fishers would never do.

Yet there I was, stowing away dead line into my pocket and wishing I had brought a bag for all the garbage in my eyesight that I could not carry.

I couldn't help but wonder why we as fishers of great fish, cant be stewards of conservation of a great resource.

Why are we not leading by example?

On my last hike down to the Glen with the Family, we couldn't carry all the recyclable garbage that we saw.

But we tried.

We have, on occasion, reminded obvious tourists revelling with beer cans in hand, to kindly carry them back up.

It works sometimes.

But we are not always there to speak out.

But we can lead by example.

Does this forum have the strength to lobby, to liaison, to lead by example, to say thank you,

to somehow remind those around us that it is so wrong to alter this beautiful landscape?

We are kidding ourselves if we think it matters not.

[ron4blues]

What a familiar song! If I had a dime for every foot of discarded line I've picked up, a nickel for every styrofoam bait box and a penny for every tossed-aside Tim's cup I've found, I could retire and spend the rest of my days fishing. It is disgraceful! And yes, members of this site often participate in clean-ups: browse some of the older posts and you'll see that this topic is indeed an old one. All we can do is keep on trying: it does make a difference. Can you imagine what it would be like without folks like yourself?

[Fishdadee]

Yes Coachman, without us it would probably be mounds of trash.

But why does the Niagara Parks 'trash can boundary' stop at the top of the hill.

Dont they have jurisdiction along the river to the falls?

Shame on Niagara Parks for ignoring the obvious.

And shame on Tim Hortons, Molsons, McDonalds and the likes to NOT take responsibility for their product.

As a very large lobby group, shouldnt we call them out and say out loud 'the majority of your costumers are polluters and therefore your company is complicit and negligent for doing nothing'

You could make a bio degradable container for earths sakes...or some other compromise.

The large corporation, the producer of the product that ends up on our river banks with their advertising on it, should somehow be responsible for their garbage.

But its our problem too.

We should not ignore the obvious

We will be part of the solution.

We have the power, as a very large consumer group and with the evidence of BRANDED GARBAGE, we have the power through our retail $$ to partner in the solution.

p.s. and heres a suggestion....how about a credit to those who carry garbage up from the gorge, whirlpool or any other river /lake to get a credit on their outdoors card anual fee...

Maybe the ministry can supply the bags with their names on it....take the credit.

p.p.s its a shame on fishers, guilty or not.

[niagarangler89]

While I commend and thank you for your efforts, the problem of littering is far more complex than simply making bio-degradable everything. After all, and I know I'm going to sound hyper-conservative for a second, but, it's our behaviour as humans, not as corporations, that have inevitably caused the ground to pile up with garbage. Yes, corporations should have a positive duty to protect, but that is a highly debated topic in professional ethics and business around the world, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it being resolved in your favour any time soon.

Also, be careful when you assume that organizations like the Parks and others don't do their part to try to keep the gorge litter-free. Like many other government-run organizations, the Parks has seen numerous cutbacks over the recent years, and are now operating on basically a skeleton staff. I participated in a garbage clean up at the whirlpool last summer (with other members of this board), where the Parks played a monumental role in organizing and implementing the event. There is another one in the works for this summer as well, but due to some bureaucratic barriers, we're unable to announce a date as of yet.

All we can do is keep doin' what you're doin'. The solo missions are truly what make 90% of the difference. Sure, the big group garbage events have a more noticeable, short-term effect. But it's the unsung heroes, the guys that are out their with a bag every time they bring their rod out or put on their hiking shoes. They're the ones who make the biggest difference, yet are the least recognized. If we were able instil that attitude into even a quarter of our outdoor enthusiasts, the world would be a much cleaner place

[toaster]

its alot cleaner these days. in the late 80's/early 90's i remember going down for salmon and it was a garbage dump. that being said there is no excuse for the mess, especially when i see tims cups dropped right on the trails. all we can do is clean up anything we see, and call people out if you catch them in the act.

[ron4blues]

I think part of the problem is the huge population in the area. Within a 90 minute drive there has to be 4 or 5 million people (include NY State in that). If even 1/10th of 1 percent of those people are slobs, that is still a lot of litter-bugs. And lets be honest: the percentage is probably closer to 10 percent! On a trip to the Margaree River in Nova Scotia a few years ago, I saw almost no litter (one coffee cup and a few food wrappers), but nearer Halifax, there was a lot of junk. The same holds for Ontario.

[Fishdadee]

I know it's a seemingly endless can of worms.

And if I collected 100 Tim Horton cups (or the like) and dropped them at their (the company)doorstep, my point would not be taken very well.

But if 1000 people brought 100 cups, the message becomes 100,000 strong.

Perhaps someone will notice a potential or notice a lot of customers.

A refund on used fishing line as an incentive? Deposit on plastic?

Before bottles and cans were returnable it may have appeared to be an insurmountable task.

And I apologize if I sound like a bleeding heart full of complaints... I drink coffee out of 'to go' containers and I drink beer out of cans and bottles. It's a tough problem that is not going to go away in a hurry.

I'm trying to use less, I don't buy plastic water bottles, re usable bags ect....

I want to say out loud that I really appreciate this Forum to brainstorm, gather the troops and make a dent, change a collective thought and change for the good.

[ron4blues]

I have actually made a suggestion to Tim Horton's to offer a free coffee with the return of 10 empty cups. I suppose they'll not do something like that for hygeine reasons. Of course, I believe they already offer a discount for customers who bring their own refillable cups. There was a thread a while back about installing disposal stations for fishing line at some locations; perhaps someone has some feedback on how that has turned out. A return deposit on bait containers would also be beneficial but will probably require government involvement.

[scapulataf]

Tim Hortons used to do that with the paper drink trays but don't anymore. THis was around the turn of the century.

[meatface]

I firmly believe that the absolute largest impact any one of us can have is by teaching our own children. My belief is that the adult slobs out there did not have parents that taught them well. My children remove their waste and most often they will pick up others as well. I think that the biggest reason for this is the old monkey see monkey do, I always take my trash with me and I usually have a bag with me to pick up anything left behind by others. It's part of the routine for us. Even when we are in the canoe we will paddle out of our way to pick trash out of the water. Now my kids will point out trash to me.

Of course that is a long term solution and only one way of addressing the garbage issue. There are countless ways of taking care of it, but they all have one thing in common and that is getting your hands dirty.

[bwizb]

I just sent a suggestion to Tim Hortons Coprorate. I know it's a long shot, but you never know until you ask. I'll update here the reponse I get from them. Here's the suggestion I sent:

"I'm an avid fisherman, an usually pick up a cup of Timmy's on the way to the lake in the morning. Lot's of other fisherman have the same idea, but tend to leave them on the shore line. I was on a fishing forum this morning and the topic came up that it would be nice if some of the corporations that provide us the products also help with the clean up. I read a suggestion that if people were to collect the cups on the ground, and return a certain amount to a Tim Hortons that person could recieve a free coffee. I think this is a great suggestion, and could be used as a great "earth friendly" promotion, showing the public that largest coffee shop chain in Canada wants to help clean up the community they serve."

[bwizb]

I just sent a suggestion to Tim Hortons Coprorate. I know it's a long shot, but you never know until you ask. I'll update here the reponse I get from them. Here's the suggestion I sent:

"I'm an avid fisherman, an usually pick up a cup of Timmy's on the way to the lake in the morning. Lot's of other fisherman have the same idea, but tend to leave them on the shore line. I was on a fishing forum this morning and the topic came up that it would be nice if some of the corporations that provide us the products also help with the clean up. I read a suggestion that if people were to collect the cups on the ground, and return a certain amount to a Tim Hortons that person could recieve a free coffee. I think this is a great suggestion, and could be used as a great "earth friendly" promotion, showing the public that largest coffee shop chain in Canada wants to help clean up the community they serve."

Response was basically, "we'll bring it up at the next meeting".

[bigugli]

There are many here who routinely pick up 100's of pounds of trash every year. yet it seems like a small drop in the bucket compared to what we see lying around us. All we can do is our best at setting good examples, and at educating the next generation.

[bigugli]

Tim Horton's should at least make packaging that blends into its environment....road gray....grass green....water blue....roadside spackle

Camoflage for our problem is not the solution. Municipalities already do that. Rather than pick up the trash they shred it in the big mowers. You don't see it but it is still there

[Fishdadee]

I see it all the time.

Landscapers mowing over garbage instead of picking it ip first.

So now we have multiples of multiples of pieces of garbage.

They should be fined on the spot...why is that any different than blatantly littering?

[DaveC]

Lots of the garbage at the Whirlpool comes down from Lake Erie, Upper Niagara River and Falls tourist area. The broken beer bottles, and garbage in the bushline is bad at times. Why its like that is simple....The days of respect are gone. Its be taken out of the home...and its been taken out of the school. Touch your kid....guess what?? you go to jail. When I acted out of place when I was a kid....I wore my old mans shoe. There is no manners, no regard for others, and no regard for thier surroundings. Im not trying to single out our youth either...because there are many of them who do care. However, lots that could care less. Pull up to any off ramp on the highway and look out your window....crap everywhere. We need to have HUGE fines for littering and taking it more serious, like Sweden I think it is....where you spit gum on the sidewalk, they lock you up. Couple years ago they had a couple of young American kids arrested for littering. All we can do is to inform people and do our part to help pick it up...its not going away anytime soon and all we do is get upset thinking about it. Pick what you can and carry it out. Garbage pickup at the whirlpool is just not going to happen....What will happen, is closure to public access.

[DaveC]

I just sent a suggestion to Tim Hortons Coprorate. I know it's a long shot, but you never know until you ask. I'll update here the reponse I get from them. Here's the suggestion I sent:

"I'm an avid fisherman, an usually pick up a cup of Timmy's on the way to the lake in the morning. Lot's of other fisherman have the same idea, but tend to leave them on the shore line. I was on a fishing forum this morning and the topic came up that it would be nice if some of the corporations that provide us the products also help with the clean up. I read a suggestion that if people were to collect the cups on the ground, and return a certain amount to a Tim Hortons that person could recieve a free coffee. I think this is a great suggestion, and could be used as a great "earth friendly" promotion, showing the public that largest coffee shop chain in Canada wants to help clean up the community they serve."

That is a brilliant Idea. Tims could cash in on that, and build a better corporate reputation as well. They also should sponsor aand support local community clean-ups.

[CCfly]

Education, mentorship, fines, initiatives, incentives, grass roots political intervention aside...

we ARE the problem and continue to be so...a virus if you will...sader still that self proclaimed sportsmen and anglers are among the transgressors...

good to know however there are those among us who gladly take a shopping bag to the water and collect rubbish as we go...at the very least SOME of us believe that the only life worth living is an "examined life..."

cc

[Fishdadee]

If we as consumers, bring our merchandise back to Joe Fresh, they will CLEARLY get the message.

If we as a fishing comunity and consumers, deliver any companies branded garbage back to them, to show them how large of a problem it is that they helped create....

There is strength in our numbers and a sting to their purse strings without our retail $$$$'s

[Snags]

BAH! This is not Tim Horton's fault. If they run a promo "bring us 10 empties for a freebie" good ... but this is passing the buck.

Should I be shipping a few burned out cars to GM and Ford that I saw fishing one spot? Education is what is needed for the population.

There is a fishing spot in Welland that a property owner will be closing and I agree with the owner. Way too many people leave garbage around and the owner has asked them to pick it up, often it is ignored. The owner will be tossing up some "no trespassing" signs ... all I can say is I can not wait to see the faces of those who have ruined it when they pull up and I am fishing and i get to inform them ... MY SPOT, NOT YOURS!

If littering is ever going to get taken seriously there has to be changes everywhere ... can't think of the number of times stuff has flown out of the bed of a pickup. Same with the small-time and weekend contractors who toss their sh*t on the lesser traveled roads in Niagara. It is not a matter of a lack of garbage cans, I have seen people drop stuff when a can is within three steps.

[Fishdadee]

I agree snags, every one has to do their part.

Education, parents and peers teaching respect, lead by example...

Plastic bottles as well as cans of all sorts are returnable for $ in BC.

Why not coffee cups? Plastic bags?

[Fishdadee]

How about a Niagara Parks-Tim Hortons partnership...install bio degradable bag dispensers at the accesses.... for those who are willing to carry garbage back up.

Win win win.