dave524 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Carp are naturalized here now and firmly established . The Regs state that gobies be not returned live to the water. However in fishing reports I am seeing more and more other non-natives, what do you think should be the policy on these as far as live release ? As feral fishes they are not protected, personally think they should have the goby rule applied to them as well, anybody else's two cents on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkangel06 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 if its an invasive species dont throw it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 if its an invasive species dont throw it back I figure if it is a goby you are killing one out of the couple million in that area and so I just throw them back but if they are going to a new area such as the welland river I do kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LockedInTheTrunkOfACar Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I figure if it is a goby you are killing one out of the couple million in that area and so I just throw them back but if they are going to a new area such as the welland river I do kill them. THAT IS ILLEGAL! It is a fineable offense to return a goby to the water (dead or alive). Gobys can live out of water for a prolonged time in my experience, I saw one flopping around for over 40 minutes once and it eventually flopped back into the water so the best thing is to ensure they have been killed. You may think killing one goby is not a big deal but they can procreate worse that cats and rabbits. They breed multiple times a year so each goby represents thousands upon thousands of eggs. Do us all a favor and continue to kill them no matter where you find them. If you can not bring yourself to step on it, bring a bag and toss em in the bag and eventually toss that bag at the end of the day into the trash can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LockedInTheTrunkOfACar Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Wikipedia on the Goby Round gobies exhibit male parental care. Females can spawn up to six times during the spawning season, which spans April to September. Males will migrate from the deeper water, where overwintering occurs, into shallower breeding grounds during the beginning of the mating season. The males are territoral and will guard nests of eggs and newly hatched young, resulting in successful hatch rates of up to 95%. Its eggs are 4 mm by 2.2 mm in size. Female round gobies reach sexual maturity in 1 to 2 years while males do so in 3 to 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth11 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 kill al the gobies kill'em all big or small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Great question to which there is no correct answer IMO. Can you imagine if we all started throwing every carp we caught up on the banks? Whew! In places where they have held carp derbies, disposal has posed a problem. Gobies are no different really. They are smaller but so prolific that a couple of kids could easily foul up a shoreline as bad as a flock of cormorants in just one afternoon. There comes a saturation point like with carp or gobies right now in most local waters, that killing individual fish is futile and only makes room for more of them. Killing invasive fish to me seems like a last resort or desperate attempt to control an invasion that hasn't yet been deemed inevitable. Now I'm no fan of the gobie but if I was charged with throwing one back alive, it would be the last time I ever paid for a license. I can understand being charged for moving them in a bait bucket but insisting we kill them while promoting C&R fishing is a conflict. Do not make pets with these fish or put the orange ones in your pond, but I see no need to continue insisting we kill fish that we know can't be extirpated. I'd rather see us start eating them. Mmmmmmmmmmmm gobie right ? Hey we made the mess! If anything I'd like to see a rule change so that you can use them for bait as long as you can produce the net you caught them with, on location and the bait bucket never left the water until they are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I didn't mean carp, my opening statement kinda meant we lost that battle and there is no going back with them, its all the other newbies , various carp-like kois , rudds, crucian carp and others that have been encountered recently that I think should have the goby reg applied to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I found a HUGE rusty crawfish on the shore from lake ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Bigugli & I were talking about gobies today , since they were in full force beating up our minnows . First , they eat out the eyes , then attack the innards and eat the gills out ....very efficient killers ! We know that several species of fish like perch & bass are now eating gobies . Perch are eating zebra mussels as well.....We agreed that they are here to stay , we cannot stop the transfer of exotics since we trade with the world daily (ships) , so we hope mother nature will let this evolve like the rest of history has over millions of years . Kill them quickly and you can add lampreys to the kill list too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike007 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Kill Gobies, alot of you guys are too touchy sound like women, Do you kill spiders and ants and centepedes in your house or do you capture them and free them outside Bring a bag like someone said and go catch a monster!! 007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I am with Chilli on this one . Killing gobies is a futile gesture. You wont make a single bit of difference. However pike, walleye, bass and other fish learning to eat them will. Promote C&R and a healthy enviroment and the other fish eating the gobies will be a much better controll than bashing them on the rocks one by one. As for being squeemish about killing them I can assure you I have killed my share of fish and game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcm420 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 McMaster University has some people researching Round Goby's And they have found out they their spawning habits lead to even greater success due to their Dad's & Cad's male roles... Basically its like Sunfish (bluegill) There are females, and then there are 2 types of males.. Parental Male goby's are the bigger darker colored goby that migrates to the nesting grounds and protects nests and encourages females to lay eggs at their nest.. the Cad' males hang with the female all the time and look almost the same as females as far as coloration and size.. but what they do is hang around the females and when they drop eggs in a nest they sneak in and fertilize as many eggs as they can before the parental male comes in and does his work.. This ensures very high fertilization on egg piles.. higher birth rates of up to 200% for species that exhibit this behavior compared to other species with similar nest sizes.. Yup they know how to survive. Kill em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I volounteered at a fishing camp last summer and the kids were catching gobies and one counselor said kill the gobies but after a while they were killing a lot of the fish about goby size which really made me mad so I had to lecture about 20 kids on what a goby looks like. If we had a use for gobies maybe for making fertilizer or something that is the only way I would be ok with the killing of them. Plus carp and goldfish are invasive species...............................................................we don't kill them. Im not saying not to kill the gobies just backing up chilli and hammercarp on how futile it is. Plus kids should not be taught to kill fish if they are not gonna keep them. Also the smallmouths are starting to feed on the gobies and thats good they have no spines and are just soft meat so nature is starting to balance itself out. Releasing gobies back alive is not illegal In the fishing regulations It only suggests that you kill them nowhere does it say it is a finable offence. It is however a fineable offence to Possess them alive or use them as bait. And pike007 I do release my spiders and insects outside or I feed them to my fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 OK, carp are here to stay and guess gobies are as well. My original post conceded the carp situation but was about more the other alien incidental catches that are showng up with increasing frequency but are still rare occurences. 20 years ago there was purple loosestrife all over and a majour eradication program was undertaken, today while it is still here, I see very little in fields that were solid purple years ago when it was in bloom. It can be done. Naturalists today are now manually eradiacating garlic mustard in sensitive unique areas trying to preserve them. There is no room for a defeatist attitude , cause then you are bound to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 The crucian carp are in the shallows by the thousands every spring. They have been since i was a kid. You rarely see them caught because even a chub will take your bait before a crucian can make up its mind. They are here to stay. As for rudd I will do my part to remove them until it is obvious it won't make a difference. I'm not being defeatist, just realistic. Do you have any idea how many plants, animals and fish we have that actually belong? Sparrows and starlings were brought here by Europe as were burloak (burrs) and a variety of food plants that now fill our fields but most of us just think they're native weeds. Garlic mustard and loosetrife have had war waged on them since the first clusters were discovered and look where that got us. imagine if our massive efforts even got us close. It only takes that one cluster in the middle of buck snark nowhere to keep it coming back. Unfortunately once these highly adaptable species take hold, the fat lady has sung. Concentrate your efforts on prevention. A unified voice may have prevented the goby from ever getting here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Chilli, where did you see these crucians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I see them every year in the shallows. Especially the marinas. Point Abino, NPC etc. There was a pond behind the winery in Jordan that was once orange because of all the fish. A serious cold snap ended that back in the early 90's but I have no doubt their back in numbers by now. Jordan harbour, 15 and 16. The thing is , you can't tell their there half the time because most are well camouflaged with the bottom and they barely move so unless you have polarized lenses and are really looking, you won't see them. It's usually the one orange one that makes you look close enough to see all the others. Oh ya and you can find them all year long (the orange ones) in the murky water where the little creek empties into Point Abino. That comes out just before the piers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little cleo Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Kill them or keep them, won't make any difference. I prefer that you kill them. I've said this before but here in northwestern ontario many people consider pike to be a nuisance and will kill them when they catch them.. Because they're eating all of the walleye. So i guess it's just a matter of what you're used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunder Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I can imagine landing on a huge pile of rotting, non- released, Invasive species after slipping on some goose do-do...Those fish are here to stay and it's futile to think goby genocide will make much difference lol While we are at it let's throw all the white perch on the bank as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunder Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 if its an invasive species dont throw it back ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkangel06 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 ?? what??? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth11 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 what??? lol did you know more then half of your species are not native jacob including CARP which we got from england, Trout except brook and lake, salmon are from the pacific and atlantic are stocked cause we wiped them out in 1898 so dont say kill all invasive species gobies are considered a nuisance species thats why we kill them and they destroy our ecosystem by eating other fishes eggs and they spawn like jack rabbits. i dont 100% agree with killing them but if you do like i do just toss in a garbage can cause no one wants to see or step on a pile of rotting gobies also dont torture them like i see alot of kids doing i dont fish with this one kid cause all he does with gobies is torture them by gouging out there eyes and then letting them flop around for a few minutes then impaling them on something, gobies are fish too so they deserve the same respect as other fish if you kill them make it quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I've said this before but here in northwestern ontario many people consider pike to be a nuisance and will kill them when they catch them.. Because they're eating all of the walleye. So i guess it's just a matter of what you're used to. Going to University in the early 70's I roomed with some guys from Dryden, they used to laugh about the crazy Americans and Europeans coming up there to catch Jackfish (pike). While in high school I lived south of the Canborough Road in Pelham, we use to hike down to Colbeck Creek in the vicinity of the Welland Airport to the Welland River and you could legally spear pike during the months of march and april, this was during the sixties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Funny how just in the last 10 years the Niagara Restoration Council had to team up with the OMNR for a restoration project in the Welland River and bypassed the fish barriers so northern pike could get upstream to spawn. Their numbers were in great danger there. A telemetry study was conducted with radio tracking and index netting etc etc. The population due to this work has seen numbers rebound. Muskies Canada has a great concern for the Upper Niagara River. Numbers have been dropping steadily so they teamed up with the MNR and collected data and started an educational outreach. There is footage out there somewhere of musky and walleye swimming side by side. The old guard felt it was the muskies fault that walleye numbers were dropping. I started hearing reports about how these know it alls would get a musky to the side of the boat and slide a knife into its swim bladder, then sink it. Funny thing is the 2003 year class of walleye was a boom class but the musky didn't rebound despite all this excess food. All them gators got sank and to add insult to injury, cormorants moved into the best known musky nursery. Pike shouldn't be culled because walleye numbers go down. There are natural fluctuations that we need to study and work with the OMNR to set regulations to manage their numbers. One of the biggest problems with the pike up North are unnatural populations because someone stocked them where there were none. That makes the pike an invasive or introduced species. No different than the bass in Japan. I know a couple of these old know it alls who have illegally stocked walleye and by stocking a different gene pool then what actually belonged in the Lake, they decimated natural walleye stocks with a kind of an invasive walleye. I have no objection to anyone culling carp, goldfish or gobies but I think your spinning your wheels in the mud. Just try and keep em off the banks. They stink when they rot and they leave a really bad impression of anglers on the rest of society. We think we know best but sometimes we just make it worse for us and the fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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