dave524 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wasn't passing judgement on pike , I was just trying to show how attitudes even laws were different back then. We did eat the pike we speared, it was just another methd of angling like dipnetting smelt. Some posts seemed to infer that all introduced species are invasive, such is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wasn't passing judgement on pike , I was just trying to show how attitudes even laws were different back then.We did eat the pike we speared, it was just another methd of angling like dipnetting smelt. Some posts seemed to infer that all introduced species are invasive, such is not the case. I don't want to start anything but it seems to me that your difference between invasive and introduced is whether enough people like to fish for them. Also spearing and netting are not angling. Angling has a definition :Angling is a method of fishing by means of an "angle" (hook). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I can imagine landing on a huge pile of rotting, non- released, Invasive species after slipping on some goose do-do...Those fish are here to stay and it's futile to think goby genocide will make much difference lol While we are at it let's throw all the white perch on the bank as well! White perch are tasty when you can find some sizeable ones, and you know how to fillet them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Invasive means they take over an ecosystem to the detriment of other species in the ecosystem creating a monoculture. Introduced simply means they exist and occupy a specific niche in that ecosystem , hopefully one that was previously underutilized, like the overabundance os smelt and alewives in Lake Ontario without a predator , pacific salmon were introduced to take the role of a predator that did not exist at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 .Also spearing and netting are not angling. Angling has a definition :Angling is a method of fishing by means of an "angle" (hook). You are correct here, the regs define it as "fishing by means other than angling" I do specifically target carp with doughballs or corn frequently and have a blast catching them on my steelhead tackle and yes I do release them . Their merit as a sport fish is unquestionable. Never did I suggest that we throw every carp we catch up on the bank to die, I thought I made that clear that we can't go back on that one as they are firmly established, my intitial comment was more about the other accidentally introduced species that are cropping up with increasing frequency. Rainbows and Brown Trout are not accidentally introduced and by no means invasive. Rainbows fill a niche left by the Atlantic Salmon in Lake Ontario. Brown Trout fill a niche as most of the former Brook trout water is now unsuitable or marginal for that species but can be utilized by the Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little cleo Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Spearing Pike was legal up until the mid-late 90's in Niagara if my memory serves me correctly. It is still legal to spear Carp and White Suckers in zone 16 with no limit. There is an open season for both. You may hunt Bowfin with a bow and arrow. Bottom of page 11 of the regs. I think there's a fundamental shift in the collective psyche of anglers and that is what leads to the mixed opinions we have on Carp. Fishing was at one time a catch, keep and eat activity. Now we have more and more anglers who fish exclusively for the sport of it - Catch, photo, release. I've read opinions on here before of individuals who have tried eating carp, I personally would never do it. There are many people who never would. Wether this comes from the old attitude of eat what you catch/ fish for things you'll eat, I don't know. Isn't the internet a wonderful place though because this whole discussion wouldn't have ever occurred were it not for this great site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Invasive means they take over an ecosystem to the detriment of other species in the ecosystem creating a monoculture.Introduced simply means they exist and occupy a specific niche in that ecosystem , hopefully one that was previously underutilized, like the overabundance os smelt and alewives in Lake Ontario without a predator , pacific salmon were introduced to take the role of a predator that did not exist at that time. Pacific salmon were introduced to the great lakes to sell Big John downriggers and to create charter boat fishing. Also we did it because the US was going to do it with or without us. If that is your definition of invasive then that has never happened in any large body of water that I know of. There have been ponds overrun with largemouth and smallmouth bass and small lakes where pike eat eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have been fighting to have this dam dam removed in Fort Erie so I can spear pike upstream and as long as their meat isn't wasted, I see no problem with it. I was against the removal of this method of "fishing". I haven't done much fishing for carp for that exact reason. I'm a "fish for food" angler. I am considering trying to eat one and have been examining the suggested servings book lately. Any recipe suggestions would be appreciated. Dave I hope my tone didn't come off as sarcastic. My last post was meant to be educational but the "know it all" label kinda reflects my opinions of past ways of thinking. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes when we learn we made one. Illegally stocking lakes seems to be fading with a generation. I did understand your post though. Hammercarp I believe the salmon were stocked to thin out the alewive population and the downriggers were a side benefit. Alewives were one of the main reasons the Atlantic's could not make a comeback. Kings are the reason the Atlantic's are meeting such political resistance. Both Atlantic's and kings are beneficial to us and no the kings aren't invasive. Dave thanks for clearing up those definitions. Introduced and invasive are not the same thing although I have used the term invasive loosely. There are allot of people who feel inland browns are invasive but I just think they're delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 They were making alewives into fertilizers in Hamilton Harbour after their mass die offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 They were making alewives into fertilizers in Hamilton Harbour after their mass die offs. You're too young to remember the really massive dieoffs before the salmon reduced their numbers drastically in the 80's, they used to have to bring in dozers and front end loaders to haul them off the beach strip. As a side note during the mid eighties a 30 pound Chinook and a dollar would get you a cup of coffee, today a 35 pounder you stand a good shot at one ot the top prizes in a derby. With the baitfish food base now much smaller there is probably close to a ten pound difference in salmon weight when they hit the rivers in the fall. Chilli, I never bought into the pike are pickerel ( walleye ) killers theory, even though I nearly lost a nice pickerel to a musky one opener in the river at Bobcaygeon. Fact is , big fish eat smaller fish, I sure there is a nice fat 10 pound pickerel somewhere witha small pike in its belly. There is some legitament concern of pike getting into the Kawartha Lakes and displacing muskies as the top predator. Pike spawn before the Musky and it seems that pike fry are large enough by the time the musky hatch to feed on them. I believe it is Balsam Lake that ten years ago there was no pike only musky, now it is more common to catch a pike. The Ministry is monitoring the situation and recommends that pike are catch and keep, I would guess this would apply to the Kawarthas east of Balsam and that you report the catch to them. Possibly some Musky Canada member can elaborate on this if we have one on this board. Funny how in some bodies of water pike and musky co-exist but others not ? EDIT :: this would be a good read http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/264328.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 The pike thing is interesting. My family has a cottage on Lake Seymour ( part of the Trent east of Rice Lake) and pike started showing up there. My brother caught one 7 or 8 years ago. There are a lot of locks between there and Trenton but the pike seem to be overcoming this. I would much rather the pike stayed out because having a chance at a musky is a lot better than catching a bunch of hammerhandles. Which is what we will get because the water is shallow and warm in Lake Seymour. I have fished and hunted and spent a good deal of time in the "outdoors". I have watched a lot of "nature shows" on TV, talked and discussed with people, and read some too. After 55 years, I have reached the conclusion that, I don't know. Life ebbs and flows, animals migrate to exploit new niches, populations expand and shrink, life procedes in an ordered and chaotic way at the same time. I think the best we can do is to treat the rest of the world with some respect and try to enjoy ourselves. If you want to make it your lifes mission to eradicate life that you call invasive or foriegn or whatever, you have a long and unhappy life ahead of you and you will lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike007 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 And pike007 I do release my spiders and insects outside or I feed them to my fish. sorry but thats too funny. 007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike007 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 On to the pike thing, I dont see why its such a problem. Canal lake as both pike and muskie and its part of the Kawarthas. Same with mitchell lake. I know it will take many more years for them to make it to pigeon lake, but that lake would be a perfect pike habitat. south end especially! Wouldnot be that bad at all. 007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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