calinpb Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I went to Lake Nipissing Aug 18 - 25, the fishing was pretty good considering we didn't spend a lot of time on the water, just prime time sun rise and sun down. Lots of pickerel in the slot but still a couple of nice keepers, just wondering if anyone knows what kind of snake this is, saw lots in the water while fishing. This one was sun tanning on our dock, when approached it would jump into the water. For those interested in Musky, the lodge where we bought our gas - Lakair Lodge had a busy week for their guests, in a 5 day period 10 Musky were caught, several incidentals and a couple good sized fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I went to Lake Nipissing Aug 18 - 25, the fishing was pretty good considering we didn't spend a lot of time on the water, just prime time sun rise and sun down. Lots of pickerel in the slot but still a couple of nice keepers, just wondering if anyone knows what kind of snake this is (when I figure out how to post pics), saw lots in the water while fishing. This one was sun tanning on our dock, when approached it would jump into the water. For those interested in Musky, the lodge where we bought our gas - Lakair Lodge had a busy week for their guests, in a 5 day period 10 Musky were caught, several incidentals and a couple good sized fish. Can someone help me with posting pics. open a photobucket account and upload your pics to your account. then come back on here and click on insert image. then just go to your photobucket and click on the IMG link and copy that into the url window. keep doing that untill you've added all your pics onto here. hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 as far as the snake goes, since I haven't seen the pics yet, could be one of two types generally found in these parts...........either a water snake or a water Moccasin (cottonmouth). although it should be pointed out that all snakes can and do swim. the water snake's head is relatively small compared to it's body and they are usually long and skinny and when it swims, the head is generally close to or in the water. the water moccasin is generally a very fat bodied snake and has a very large, wedge shaped head, in relation to its body. it's also got some white around it's mouth and has pupils much like a cats. when it swims, the head is always kept well above the water level. you deffinitely don't want to get bit by one of these............it's generally not deadly, but the venom is hemotoxic, so it attacks the flesh and pulverizes it, usually swelling to twice the size within 15 minutes of a bite. if antivenom is administered, it doesn't take long to subside, but usually involves amputation, especially if it's a digit (such as a finger) that got bit. and some bite victims have even had slurred speach and other side effects after the bite has been treated and direct symptoms of the bite have subsided. so in other words, the effects can be long term. I think everyone should inform themselves about these snake and the differences between them. not only these, but also the Massasauga rattler. this snake is found mostly around Georgian Bay, Lake Huron and Lake St.Clair, but I have seen them in the Niagara Gorge too. you can tell it, from its gray colour with black splotches along the centre of its back. it is not a very dangerous snake as far as rattlers go, as it gives ample warning if you get too close, but it is deadly if you get bitten by it. they will only strike if provoked. if you see a Massasauga rattler, you should report it since it's an endangered species and they are trying to keep a track on where they are and how they are doing. I reported it years ago when I saw a nest of them around the vicinity of the whirlpool. they went down within hours of the report and confirmed that they were infact, Massasauga rattlers..........just a tip for all you whirlpool anglers to watch your back and use your ears while down there. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calinpb Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for the help and info, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for the help and info, much appreciated. that my friend is a water moccasin. WOW, you were that close!? you deffinitely don't wanna PO that thing and get bit. you can tell by the slightly darker bands around and along the lenght of its body. it's got a very blunt nose too.......another tell tail sign of a moccasin. you are very lucky to get that close for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 that my friend is a water moccasin. WOW, you were that close!? you deffinitely don't wanna PO that thing and get bit. you can tell by the slightly darker bands around and along the lenght of its body. it's got a very blunt nose too.......another tell tail sign of a moccasin. you are very lucky to get that close for sure. actually, upon closer inspection of that pic, I may be wrong. there are so many colorations for the common water snake, that it could very well be that.......a water snake. I'm looking at the back of the head and how it meets flush with the body. a water moccasin's head is very bulky at the back of the head. so I'm gonna change my official stance and say this is a water snake. it's a bit darker, which would suggest it is a fairly mature individual. young water snakes are generally olive in colour with dark blotches/stripes along the back, which is why many people misidentify them as moccasins, which is what I just did. as a little side note, the water snake was starting to become an endangered species, but since the introduction of the round Goby, they have made a remarkable comeback, since they have learned to eat these fish.........so maybe Goby's aren't such a bad thing afterall. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Nice size eye for up there! Where did ya stay? I go up to Memquisit a few times a year its just around the bend from Lakair. I'm sure Water Mocasins are only down south, pretty sure that's just a normal water snake. I think the only venomous one is the rattlesnake, in Ontario atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 There are several species of water snakes in Ontario but NO Water Moccasins, our only poisionous snake is the Massasauga Rattler. Water Snakes can give you a nasty bite though if you provoke them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeBaggin Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 There are several species of water snakes in Ontario but NO Water Moccasins, our only poisionous snake is the Massasauga Rattler. Water Snakes can give you a nasty bite though if you provoke them. Dave is right! No water moccasins round here. I have yet to come across a Massasauga rattler in the gorge. I would like to know what there numbers are in this region. If any. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Dave is right! No water moccasins round here. I have yet to come across a Massasauga rattler in the gorge. I would like to know what there numbers are in this region. If any.RB With the traffic down there in the whirpool and the amount of spots for them to hide, I imagine you would have to be pretty lucky to see one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I know there are still lots of Timber Rattlesnakes down in the Chemung Valley where I'm from (Big Flats,Ny), they made a big comeback about 2-3 years ago and even took over one rest stop! Copied from a snake site! Rattlesnake’s Range: Massasauga rattlesnakes have been wiped out from much of their historical range in Ontario. Recovery efforts are under way to help ensure their survival. Sadly, one snake species, the Timber Rattlesnake has been extirpated from Ontario. It used to be found along the Niagara escarpment. They were largely eliminated by the late 1800’s, and the last one was seen in 1941 near Niagara Falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calinpb Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Nice size eye for up there! Where did ya stay? I go up to Memquisit a few times a year its just around the bend from Lakair. I'm sure Water Mocasins are only down south, pretty sure that's just a normal water snake. I think the only venomous one is the rattlesnake, in Ontario atleast. We were at a cottage on Pinewoods Rd. just across the bay from Lakair Lodge, the pike fishing was good as well, didn't spend a lot of time trolling but when we did the pike were aggressive just along the weedy bays. Lots of variety of fish and areas to fish in the West Arm. I noticed the other lodge just east of lakair lodge is selling off their mini-cottages individually, "Samoset Lodge" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 actually, there is a very small population of Massasauga rattlers in the gorge and hopefully will make a comeback. and if you want to see a fairly substantial population, you can see them in the area around Port Colbourne. if you do your research, you'll see I'm not wrong. and those that I saw were positively ID'd as Massasauga rattlers. as far as the cottonmouth are concerned, I would generally agree that you would not normally see one in these parts. but after saying that, many have been seen and caught within a healthy radius of the great lakes. to me, that says that the climate is changing, which is allowing these snakes to move further north. if I can find the link, I will post it, showing a cottonmouth being caught around the Orillia area. kinda cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 that my friend is a water moccasin. WOW, you were that close!? you deffinitely don't wanna PO that thing and get bit. you can tell by the slightly darker bands around and along the lenght of its body. it's got a very blunt nose too.......another tell tail sign of a moccasin. you are very lucky to get that close for sure. No water moccasin's in Canada I had an encounter with the exact same species also at Nippising - not sure of the exact name but definitely not a moccasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 actually, there is a very small population of Massasauga rattlers in the gorge and hopefully will make a comeback. and if you want to see a fairly substantial population, you can see them in the area around Port Colbourne. if you do your research, you'll see I'm not wrong. and those that I saw were positively ID'd as Massasauga rattlers.as far as the cottonmouth are concerned, I would generally agree that you would not normally see one in these parts. but after saying that, many have been seen and caught within a healthy radius of the great lakes. to me, that says that the climate is changing, which is allowing these snakes to move further north. if I can find the link, I will post it, showing a cottonmouth being caught around the Orillia area. kinda cool. Call me what you want but to me the only good snake is a dead one. Although I dont have the heart to kill an animal for no reason myself - i am not saddened when I hear stories of them being endangered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikeattolah Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 That's a Northern water snake. Non poisonous, but they can be aggressive, especially around a nest. The are very common in the rec canal. They also get that size or bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'll have to find that link about the cottonmouth (aka Moccasin) being caught in the Orillia area. they are here, but not in any great number, but with the climate changing, I think that will change too. and Nik, that's a pretty narrow minded view of a species that is vital to the survival of an ecosystem. snakes are a keystone species. if you aren't sure what that means, the basic interpretation is: any species that has a diproportionate effect on the environment relative to abundance. a direct explanation would be, snakes eat insects and rodents that would destroy plant life around a lake, that would then cause plant life in the lake to die, which would then cause the fish in that lake to die......therefore, no more fishing for you. no snakes=no fishing. and usually, snakes will only go after diseased and toxic prey and keeps a very healthy balance that we humans so greatly rely upon. for example, the northern water snake.......this snake eats way more toxic newts per snake than the total number of snakes in Canada. it is a healthy benefit that directly relates to us as anglers. newts eat marine plantlife which give our fish nutrition and shelter. without these, we have no fish to catch. so try and have a little common sense and educate yourself, before you say something stupid, like, "eww, I hate snakes", or, "only good snake is a dead one". I admire snakes for the role they play in our environment. if it weren't for snakes and bees, humans would be screwed. bees are also responsible for 80+% of the food that we eat, either directly or indirectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 so try and have a little common sense and educate yourself, before you say something stupid, like, "eww, I hate snakes", or, "only good snake is a dead one". I admire snakes for the role they play in our environment. if it weren't for snakes and bees, humans would be screwed. bees are also responsible for 80+% of the food that we eat, either directly or indirectly. On my plate is 80 percent meat and 20 percent veggies What do bees have to do with fish, cows, pigs, chickens, eggs and all other meat? I can see 80 percent of a vegitarians diet, but not us fishermen lol. I know all about the bee shortage, but 80 percent of what we eat sounds a little crazy. I would like to see the water mocasin article. I like snakes, used to have a boa b4 the kids showed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 On my plate is 80 percent meat and 20 percent veggies What do bees have to do with fish, cows, pigs, chickens, eggs and all other meat? I can see 80 percent of a vegitarians diet, but not us fishermen lol. I know all about the bee shortage, but 80 percent of what we eat sounds a little crazy. I would like to see the water mocasin article. I like snakes, used to have a boa b4 the kids showed up! think about it........what do your "meat" animals eat? grass, corn, etc, etc,.........ALL pollinated in some form or another by bees. most, if not all plants are asexual, meaning they need bees to pollinate. if they don't pollinate, your cows don't eat and you don't eat the cows. your chickens don't lay eggsand your worms that you fish with, don't eat and reproduce from rotting waste materials.......all coming from the fact that somewhere down the line, a bee pollinated something that came in contact with something you ate, or use. if you want further explanation, I will provide it since I realize this is kinda vague. just hope it gets the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 here's a link showing just how important this is. Bees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'll have to find that link about the cottonmouth (aka Moccasin) being caught in the Orillia area. they are here, but not in any great number, but with the climate changing, I think that will change too. and Nik, that's a pretty narrow minded view of a species that is vital to the survival of an ecosystem. snakes are a keystone species. if you aren't sure what that means, the basic interpretation is: any species that has a diproportionate effect on the environment relative to abundance. a direct explanation would be, snakes eat insects and rodents that would destroy plant life around a lake, that would then cause plant life in the lake to die, which would then cause the fish in that lake to die......therefore, no more fishing for you. no snakes=no fishing. and usually, snakes will only go after diseased and toxic prey and keeps a very healthy balance that we humans so greatly rely upon. for example, the northern water snake.......this snake eats way more toxic newts per snake than the total number of snakes in Canada. it is a healthy benefit that directly relates to us as anglers. newts eat marine plantlife which give our fish nutrition and shelter. without these, we have no fish to catch. so try and have a little common sense and educate yourself, before you say something stupid, like, "eww, I hate snakes", or, "only good snake is a dead one". I admire snakes for the role they play in our environment. if it weren't for snakes and bees, humans would be screwed. bees are also responsible for 80+% of the food that we eat, either directly or indirectly. You are right I am narrow minded - and yes I do know the benefits of these creatures. I am deathly afraid of them and am not afraid to admit it... Now if you think im stupid I am willing to bet I know more about them than you. And I hate snakes, I admit I have never killed one, I probably never will but I hate them. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it - some people hate Ford, others hate catching cats, others hate sports teams... and so on Please also elaborate on the snakes part of the snakes and bees comment LOL there is no truth to what you said there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth11 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 You are right I am narrow minded - and yes I do know the benefits of these creatures. I am deathly afraid of them and am not afraid to admit it...Now if you think im stupid I am willing to bet I know more about them than you. And I hate snakes, I admit I have never killed one, I probably never will but I hate them. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it - some people hate Ford, others hate catching cats, others hate sports teams... and so on Please also elaborate on the snakes part of the snakes and bees comment LOL there is no truth to what you said there!!! how can you hate snakes i love them i catch em all the time and ive got bite marks too my best was from what i was a told a corn snake which was about 3-4' long was white, yellow and small black stripes man did my hand bleed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 how can you hate snakes i love them i catch em all the time and ive got bite marks too my best was from what i was a told a corn snake which was about 3-4' long was white, yellow and small black stripes man did my hand bleed All the power to you but they scare the **** out of me. I am fine with any animal and will go on record as saying I would be less frightened (within reason) of seeing a bear in the wild than a snake... I once touched a boa in school and it took all the courage I had to do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvevolution Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Nik I'm not saying I know more or less than anyone about snakes, but I have some academic credentials to back my position. along with my major in aeronautical engineering degree at RMC, I also minored in Bio (specifically North American ecosystems) and Psychology. upon graduation, that paper entitled me to immediately enter Guelph U for the veterinary school masters program had I not chosen to go into the airline industry. so, while not tooting my own horn in any way whatsoever, I do have the education that would say so in this case. now that we've got that BS out of the way, let's get on with the debate shall we?........... as to my comment about snakes and bees..................I assume that you meant there's no truth in what I said about if there were no snakes or bees, we'de be screwed. is this correct? if you do your homework, you would realize that bees are responsible for nearly everything we consume. I said about 80%, but in actuality, it's probably closer to 90%, directly or indirectly. so not sure where you don't see the truth in that. that is a scientific fact and beyond refute or contestation. and as far as snakes are concerned, if you look at the specialized job they perform, I'm not sure how you don't see the truth in that either. the snakes sole role on this planet is to rid it of vermin, whether that be insects, rodents, etc., etc.. sure, they sometimes eat other things as incidental kills, but predominantly, they eat vermin. if you know your history, then you know what vermin can do.......ie: the great plague of Europe. and this is directly related to snake populations, or lack thereof. back then, snake populations were low in numbers and therefore allowed vermin to multiply exponentially. England and Ireland were the worst off, since they are cut off and Ireland bore the brunt of it because there are no snakes there, PERIOD. hasn't been snakes in Ireland since the Pleistecine era, when massive ice sheets covered the vast majority of the earth, as far down as Missouri and even into Misssissippi. so the point is,, it's not the only reason, but a major contributing factor in the plague getting as bad as it did, was becuase there weren't enough snakes to even the balance of nature out. again, that is scientific fact and beyond refute or contestation. so not sure what you thought was untruthful about that. I am just stating a fact of the matter. as far as your fear of snakes.......I would never make fun of that. that's a pretty common (and serious) phobia. I personally don't have any phobias, so I cannot relate whatsoever. but I can see where the "the only good snake is a dead one" analogy comes from . but that is all you said, when what you should have said was, "I have a snake phobia, so the only good snake is a dead one". I would have totally understood that and would have replied with a courteous laugh. instead, it opened up room for a debate, which there is certainly nothing wrong with at all. but to try and belittle someone by saying you know more makes you sound like a pompass jacka$$. what I do not enjoy, is the game playing "my dad can beat up your dad", grade 4 BS. I do not enjoy being railroaded in that manner so, thanks for getting me involved, that's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 NikI'm not saying I know more or less than anyone about snakes, but I have some academic credentials to back my position. along with my major in aeronautical engineering degree at RMC, I also minored in Bio (specifically North American ecosystems) and Psychology. upon graduation, that paper entitled me to immediately enter Guelph U for the veterinary school masters program had I not chosen to go into the airline industry. so, while not tooting my own horn in any way whatsoever, I do have the education that would say so in this case. now that we've got that BS out of the way, let's get on with the debate shall we?........... as to my comment about snakes and bees..................I assume that you meant there's no truth in what I said about if there were no snakes or bees, we'de be screwed. is this correct? if you do your homework, you would realize that bees are responsible for nearly everything we consume. I said about 80%, but in actuality, it's probably closer to 90%, directly or indirectly. so not sure where you don't see the truth in that. that is a scientific fact and beyond refute or contestation. and as far as snakes are concerned, if you look at the specialized job they perform, I'm not sure how you don't see the truth in that either. the snakes sole role on this planet is to rid it of vermin, whether that be insects, rodents, etc., etc.. sure, they sometimes eat other things as incidental kills, but predominantly, they eat vermin. if you know your history, then you know what vermin can do.......ie: the great plague of Europe. and this is directly related to snake populations, or lack thereof. back then, snake populations were low in numbers and therefore allowed vermin to multiply exponentially. England and Ireland were the worst off, since they are cut off and Ireland bore the brunt of it because there are no snakes there, PERIOD. hasn't been snakes in Ireland since the Pleistecine era, when massive ice sheets covered the vast majority of the earth, as far down as Missouri and even into Misssissippi. so the point is,, it's not the only reason, but a major contributing factor in the plague getting as bad as it did, was becuase there weren't enough snakes to even the balance of nature out. again, that is scientific fact and beyond refute or contestation. so not sure what you thought was untruthful about that. I am just stating a fact of the matter. as far as your fear of snakes.......I would never make fun of that. that's a pretty common (and serious) phobia. I personally don't have any phobias, so I cannot relate whatsoever. but I can see where the "the only good snake is a dead one" analogy comes from . but that is all you said, when what you should have said was, "I have a snake phobia, so the only good snake is a dead one". I would have totally understood that and would have replied with a courteous laugh. instead, it opened up room for a debate, which there is certainly nothing wrong with at all. but to try and belittle someone by saying you know more makes you sound like a pompass jacka$$. what I do not enjoy, is the game playing "my dad can beat up your dad", grade 4 BS. I do not enjoy being railroaded in that manner so, thanks for getting me involved, that's awesome. Look fair enough - but I did study snakes albeit not at a scholarly level but I am informed - I too have a degree to my name however mine is irrelevant as to this topic (Industrial Engineering). I am completely aware of bees being as important as you make them out to be (no pun intended) however there are many different animals around that help control rodent and "pest" populations. For the record I said there was no truth to the Snakes end not the Bee's end of your comment. I do find some humor in your analogy that a lack of snakes caused the plague - Europe was infested with Tens of Millions possibly more rodents at the time, had there been a reasonable number of snakes the problem still would have existed. Snakes can only eat so much and to have enough to control entire rodent populations - especially in a city setting. Regardless I will agree to disagree and will say no hard feelings I'm going to drop this topic only because I don't wish to start any commotion on this board, and I apologize if I offended anyone. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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