Roe (Fish Eggs) - Regulations, Use, Harvesting

[blairwelsh]

Roe has been used in fishing for hundreds (if not thousands of years)

In both freshwater and salt water applications.

· For the purpose of this thread, we are sticking to Ontario Jurisdiction.

From a “Bait” and “Attractant” application: Fish eat it, due to the high protein value and availability of the food source. It is a staple diet for many species. Most fish will feed on other’s eggs as well as their own kind. Each species has its own different spawning seasons. In general, these spawning seasons are mainly in the Fall & Spring.

The size, colour, scent, and amount of Roe vary from each individual species.

The most commonly USED ROE in Ontario is:

1. Salmon (Chinook & Coho)

2. Brown Trout

3. Rainbow Trout

4. Sucker

Roe can be used in either forms of:

1. Skein (eggs still attached to membrane)

2. Individual Single Eggs or packaged Roe Bags

3. Kept “Natural” or “Cured” with different additives (Borax, Salt, Brown Sugar, Colouration)

BY THE REGULATIONS (MNR):

USE

ANY form of Roe (Fish Eggs) may be USED as BAIT in Ontario. Any. Ie: Salmon, Trout, Sucker, Pike, Bass, Perch, and Carp etc.

The only exception(s) as to the KIND of Roe used are: Endangered Fish Species or Invasive (You cannot harvest or use their Roe) and Locations listed in the SPECIAL EXCEPTION ZONES (Ie: BAIT BAN -Upper Credit)

The RULES of “OUT OF SEASON FISH (OOS)” regulations always apply to each zone. You cannot target, catch or keep fish under these regulations. The use of ROE is not the factor - The species is.

- Roe may also be USED as an ATTRACTANT (“Chumming”) and is permissible in ALL waters that have no restrictions on “Chumming” or Bait Use.

ALTERNATIVES: (Artificial)

There are many “imitations/alternatives” of Roe available on the Marketplace.

1. Beads

2. Fly Imitations

3. Plastics

4. Lure Imitations

5. Marshmallows

6. Pom Poms

7. Yarn

8. Corkies

The uses of each of these are governed by ZONE RESTRICTIONS. Ie: Hook restrictions (Barbless), Use of Artificial baits

-All OOS applications apply, as to due Limits & Licensing.

-Some zones will allow the use of (2) lines: Ice Fishing or Lakes (listed in Zone Restrictions and Exceptions)

HARVESTING

Roe harvesting is 100% legal within Ontario. You may harvest the roe of any fish within the guidelines.

The exceptions are as follows:

1. Species is listed as endangered or Invasive

2. Species is “Out of Season” (time and location) or labelled NON -CATCH

3. Licence and Zone Limits

“MILKING” is 100% legal within Ontario of Any Species as long as it does not break the above listed exceptions. The IMPROPER APPLICATION of Milking a fish can lead to its death. You MUST release a fish in HEALTHY CONDITION as per the regulations.

Alternative Sources of acquiring Real Roe:

1. Licensed Dealers (Stores, Bait Shops etc)

- Individuals without a licence may not SELL roe. Private giving of roe between individuals is 100% Legal. Limits are to be followed

- There may be certain Transportation regulations that will be listed in Zone exceptions under Bait transfer from different bodies of water

2. Fish Hatcheries

3. Cleaning Stations (Many Charter Boat docks have disposed roe readily available)

__________________________________________________________________

I hope that this thread helps EDUCATE our fellow fishermen. If there are any:

- Omissions / or errors

- Comments

- Additions

Do not hesitate to bring them up.

There are many OPINIONS, ETHICS and different Point of Views that we all share.

Many revolve around our own style and experience.

A strong passion can be shown towards: Conservation initiatives, Catch & Release Methods etc.

It should be noted that:

IT IS ILLEGAL TO HARASS, INTERFERE or IMPEED an INDIVIDUAL who is FISHING

(Within Regulations and Codes)

Regulations and Techniques have CHANGED over the years because of the input of Fishermen, Environmental Conditions, and Fishery Management. IF you DISAGREE with what the current regulations are ... then direct those opinions to the Sources that matter (Government, MNR, Politicians and Regulators)

[bass2mouth]

Very informative thanks for the info I've seen many questions I've heard just anwsered all at once.

Blair-if you had to chose one type of Roe for the next 10 years what kind would you use??

[cplummer]

I would use pink salmon roe. My favorite and I very rarely use roe. My artificials outfish roe

[blairwelsh]

Very informative thanks for the info I've seen many questions I've heard just anwsered all at once.

No worries ... Thank you.

Blair-if you had to chose one type of Roe for the next 10 years what kind would you use??

Well ...

Since my Youth, my brother .. his fellow fishermen - have always spoke and used the "Brown Gold"

I have used brown roe and havested it.

That goes back 30+ years.

I still support it;s use and harvest. Under the regulations and what would be my "Current Ethics"

(They are subject to change ... lol )

Lately (the past 5 years) ... I have only used brown roe about 5-10% of the time.

I use Chinny Roe 95% of the time.

(Tried Rainbow and Sucker a couple times ... but not much)

My reasoning is that the CHINNY POPULATION is the BIGGEST.

it provides the most "opportunity" for a fair cull as opposed to any other alternative species. (Considering Stocking as well)

and even more IMPORTANTY ... the amount of CHINNY ROE available to FEEDING FISH (Steelies & Browns and Lakers!) is the highest!

This creates their "natural feeding pattern and reconigtion of the Roe". The "math" says go with the Chinny.

So.... " IF I had to choose One type of Roe over the Next 10 years"?

It would be CHINNY ROE.

Thankfully i have the choice to choose which ever my preference is.

This includes respecting other's choices

lol

[NADO]

I would like to see references for your first post. Statements like that shouldnt be made unless they are properly referenced.

[bass2mouth]

Well ...

Since my Youth, my brother .. his fellow fishermen - have always spoke and used the "Brown Gold"

I have used brown roe and havested it.

That goes back 30+ years.

I still support it;s use and harvest. Under the regulations and what would be my "Current Ethics"

(They are subject to change ... lol )

Lately (the past 5 years) ... I have only used brown roe about 5-10% of the time.

I use Chinny Roe 95% of the time.

(Tried Rainbow and Sucker a couple times ... but not much)

My reasoning is that the CHINNY POPULATION is the BIGGEST.

it provides the most "opportunity" for a fair cull as opposed to any other alternative species. (Considering Stocking as well)

and even more IMPORTANTY ... the amount of CHINNY ROE available to FEEDING FISH (Steelies & Browns and Lakers!) is the highest!

This creates their "natural feeding pattern and reconigtion of the Roe". The "math" says go with the Chinny.

So.... " IF I had to choose One type of Roe over the Next 10 years"?

It would be CHINNY ROE.

Thankfully i have the choice to choose which ever my preference is.

This includes respecting other's choices

lol

and thats how someone with a lot of experience responds to a question!! Thanks for the response and the for giving the reason why totally makes sense:)

[blairwelsh]

I would like to see references for your first post. Statements like that shouldnt be made unless they are properly referenced.

The original post is based on my own personal experience fishing in Ontario for 40+ years,

and

- the Mnr Regulations: http://www.mnr.gov.o...L02_163615.html

and

- http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@letsfish/documents/document/stel02_178928.pdf

... an extensive Ontario Study.

This "part" of that study is quite educational:

Studies have shown that rainbow trout can survive being caught and released (Klein 1965; Horak

and Klein 1967, Reingold 1975, Mongillo 1984, Taylor and White 1992). While artificial and egg

baits generally result in less than 10% mortality, other natural baits can result in mortalities of up to

50% (Mongillo 1984). Although the benefits of barbless versus barbed hooks continues to be

debated (Turek and Brett 1997) the banning of live or natural bait has proven benefits to catch and

release survival (Mongillo 1984). In addition, survival appears higher with treble hooks versus single

hooks when attached to artificial baits. Larger single hooks fished with bait may cause less mortality

than smaller single hooks (Mongillo 1984). This may justify a critical examination of existing special

regulations.

Currently there are no restrictions on the use of roe (fish eggs) when angling for rainbow trout.

Using rainbow trout roe (or eggs from other species) in spawn bags for drift fishing is a very popular

and effective method of catching rainbow trout in river systems. The desire to obtain roe from gravid

female rainbow trout has led to enforcement issues on many areas of the Great Lakes (D. Weltz,

OMNR, Owen Sound, Ontario. pers. comm.). Anglers often exclusively seek female fish and have

been witnessed catching, removing eggs and releasing fish, and are believed to harvest eggs from

more fish than their legal limit. The desire to obtain rainbow trout roe for use as bait has resulted in

illegal angling activity and the development of an illegal trade. Although the use of eggs as bait

allows for better post-release survival, in many cases fish are either harvested for eggs or stripped

and released which likely significantly reduces survival.

Proposing some control on the collection and use of roe has met resistance when attempted in the

past. Given the apparent escalating problem of illegal roe collection and sale, declining rainbow

trout abundance in many locations of the Province, and the effectiveness of roe in catching rainbow

trout, the Province should conduct a review of the roe situation and assess options for any future

action. The development of a DNA database for wild rainbow trout would assist in prosecution.

Currently retail outlets selling roe claim that they purchased the eggs from private hatcheries.

Without a genetic database little can be done to follow up and prosecute those illegally selling roe

from wild rainbow trout. Education is needed to make anglers aware that catching, stripping and releasing wild rainbow trout

is an ethically questionable practice. At the very least anglers should be informed that they should

not exceed current bag limits when collecting eggs.

Recommendations for Special Regulations

Special regulations should only be implemented where there are clear management objectives, where there is widespread public support and where they can be fully evaluated.

• Special regulations should only be considered when exploitation is exceptionally heavy or where the goal is to provide unique angling opportunities. Special regulations which can be considered on designated waters include use of artificial flies/lures only, and/or the use of barbless hooks.

• Catch-and-release only regulations (zero catch and possession limit) may be considered in some cases for designated waters (or sections thereof) being managed to provide a high quality angling experience or where there are serious conservation issues.

• Assessment on the existing areas with special regulations should be communicated provincially to provide direction to other managers of rainbow trout on the suitability of this type of regulation.

• The Province should review the usage of roe as bait from a policy perspective. The status of illegal roe collection and sale, and the associated increased efficiency of angler success should be assessed.

•Anglers should be informed of the legal aspects of roe collection and provided guidelines on best handling practices and methods of releasing fish.

•Seek the development of a DNA rainbow trout database for use in prosecuting the illegal trade of wild fish roe.

I was extremely interested in the additional findings concerning SURVIVAL RATES and the fact that a LARGER HOOK is attributed to HIGHER SURVIVAL RATES in CATCH & RELEASE.

*Many avid Steelheaders will consistantly advise to USE SMALLER HOOKS.

This in itself is not neccessarily a "Contradiction" to their Principles on Catch & Release.

It is an OPINION and CHOICE that they make. I fully support this freedom of Choice.

I do not try and promote a "It's our way or the highway" mentality.

There is always room for oppossing views or subtle interpretations that can CO-EXIST

When i write an ARTICLE such as the ORIGINAL POST, I have tried to make it as un-biased and factual as possible. My skills in this area are definately, far superior than yours. Some day, you may even have that ablility yourself.

lol

Please Note what was also clearly indicated within the post:

I hope that this thread helps EDUCATE our fellow fishermen. If there are any:

- Omissions / or errors

- Comments

- Additions

Do not hesitate to bring them up.

There are many OPINIONS, ETHICS and different Point of Views that we all share.

Many revolve around our own style and experience.

A strong passion can be shown towards: Conservation initiatives, Catch & Release Methods etc.

I also enjoy the opinions of others who are far more knowledgable than you.

I factor them into my basis of opinion.

The Current Regulations are what they are.

This also allows for reasonable opposition and different Views.

Everything is not always BLACK or WHITE, RIGHT or WRONG.

There is and can always be compromise and consiliation.

These "POSTS" have been published on another site (ff.net)

they make reference to this very issue with strong conservation in mind:

This year we have seen a good number of adult browns return to the river. I and many others have spent many hours over the years trying to accomplish this. It saddens me to hear about how many are being stripped or even taken out of the system for several reasons. Guys if you want us to continue to make an effort on the browns please stop killing them for eggs!

thanks

Joseph Ward CRAA Hatchery Manager

________________

CRAA has also worked with MNR and the browns are now lifted past Streetsville and Norval to spawn in the headwaters. Many of the browns are wild and the run is growing from hard work by volunteers stocking them, lifting them, transfering them and now an MNR crew lifting them.

How stupid and short sighted can people be? We have a small but growing run that can easily be screwed up and destroyed. And sadly we cannot count on MNR to reduce limits or protect them these days. One day we could see thousands of wild lake run browns if enough anglers care to protect them.

John

_________________

President and Chair,

Credit River Anglers Association

"Give a little back to the resource we all love"

I respect their opinions. They have put forth tremendous efforts to our Fisheries.

* I also do not believe the ATLANTIC SALMON PROGRAM is succeeding.

You can support individuals, and at the same time - disagree with them as well.

[cplummer]

How big is it compared to rainbow and chinook eggs?

. Similar to coho in colour slightly smaller than coho yet slightly bigger than rainbow. But no roe compares to it for steelies and that's my experience

[Gerritt]

Im watching this thread closely....

[NADO]

Stuff like this

“MILKING” is 100% legal within Ontario of Any Species as long as it does not break the above listed exceptions. The IMPROPER APPLICATION of Milking a fish can lead to its death. You MUST release a fish in HEALTHY CONDITION as per the regulations.

Makes me wonder why stuff like this is even on the forum.

http://www.niagarafishing.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=21845

When I first joined here my initial impression was very different from what I am seeing now.

[bigugli]

Stuff like this

Makes me wonder why stuff like this is even on the forum.

http://www.niagarafi...showtopic=21845

When I first joined here my initial impression was very different from what I am seeing now.

This forum is for all anglers. As long as members do not post, or promote, illegal practice, there is no reason to edit and censor any material. You disagree with a practice that many use on a regular basis. that is fine. We are all entitled to an opinion. There is no room for belligerence on this forum.

If this forum is that disagreeable to your tastes, perhaps it is time you moved on.

[NADO]

You are right, when I post a simple remark in a thread saying I dont think its ethical for people to strip a brown and I recieve this in response and nothing is done I do think it is time for me to move on.

I was holding my tongue ... due to the fact that a "reply" will most likely stimulate some heat.

I can no longer hold my tongue.

lol

I figure this is the "Private Section"... and will keep it civil, but here goes: (just my Personal Opinion, of course)

NADO,

I have never fished with you, and never want to. That being my choice.

I do not "know you personally" (and dont want to) ... but have gathered an opinion of you from posts on these type of internet sites.

What i see is this:

- a person who about a year ago, never really targeted or fished trout (Fine with that, everyone starts somewhere).

Who has developed into a KNOW IT ALL.

- a person who takes the time to TROLL BOARDS. POSTS and express a BIASED OPINION and EXPECTS others to head your "advice"

- a person who values "Equipment" over knowledge and experience

- a person who has willingly joined the TROUT MAFIA! (* not those who enjoy the species, but those who profess to know everything and actually take the time to share these bewildering opinions on others) Elitist, Snobs .... etc.

People are entitled to their opinions and I can always enjoy listening and hearing BOTH sides of a point of view.

You however, have a KNOWN TENDANCEY of sharing your views in what i consider an innopropriate way.

Your ARROGANT, RUDE ... and many times: CONDESENDING and a HYPOCRITE!

You attack wonderful anglers with your "invasive species opinions" (CARP)

You seem to have had a "PERFECT" Catch & Release History and relish attacking anyone who shows a pic that is not up to "your standards"

You just purchased a new CENTRE PIN and now, you know everything about the "RIGHT WAY" to fish Trout do you?

*No offense to the many PROUD and HUMBLE and Knowledgeable people who enjoy the style.

Here is a post you put up on another board just recently (BROWN TROUT - and ROE USAGE):

I better not run into anyone stripping a brown for their eggs...beautiful fish and knowing the work that goes into hatchery programs it is just simply a disrespectful act.

I share the conservation attitude toward the fishery, but in no way ... "comment the way you do"

* I hope that when I am about to LEGALLY HARVEST my first BROWN HEN in the last 2 years - that we MEET on the RIVER ... and you partake in your statements.

It will be very interesting for you to see the reaction you get from me.

I will keep a PROMISE I made to you ... if neccessary.

LOL

So ....

Continue to post and be the MAN that you are.

I find it tiresome.

Passion is one thing, how one acts and expressed that Passion is another thing.

ps; I also do not find it "Coincedental" that your "Friend" acts the same way.

"Birds of a feather ... Flock together" - Dont they?

I have noticed that many of them have "Come over" from other site recently.

Here to tell the NIAGARA ANGLERS what to do are you?

"Tough Guy" internet statements and RIGHT WINGED OPINIONS are becoming quite drab and boring on these sites.

Thankfully this forum does a great job of wheeling in the TROLLS and IDIOTS.

I guess this site is not concerned with personal attacks. I have been nothing but respectful in voicing my opinion.

[Snags]

I currently lack a computer and high speed Internet but if milking is 100% legal, is there a link or page in the REGS?

Would it not be considered harassment of the fish?

Not stirring the pot just questioning.

[Bones]

It is LEGAL. Last year I wanted a definitive answer so I contacted the MNR, something anyone can do regarding any topic. Here is there response and my question below it.

Hi ******

Provided that the season is open and the fish is lawfully taken there is currently no offence where a fish is caught, the roe removed and the fish is released alive. The only concern would be that the fish is reasonably likely to survive once released - the angler that catches the fish may not allow the flesh to be wasted.

As you noted the fish must be consider part of your daily limit since it has been retained.

I hope this answers your question.

Regards,

Mark Robbins

Provincial Enforcement Specialist

Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources

300 Water Street

Peterborough, Ontario

K9J 8M5

(705) 755-1775

Subject: MNR Website Inquiry: Conservation Officer (Enforcement) (English)

I have a question and I want a reply:

Regarding taking roe from a fish. I know the fish counts towards your

daily limit but can you legally release the fish after taking eggs.

Thank You,

[cplummer]

There you have it folks.. A legal response from the MNR.... done...over now get on with what we are here for.. to fish and educate about fishing... and make new friends ....

Thank You Bones (John)

[Slevin]

SLAP my face and call me SALLY :slap: thank GOD it's OVER?????????

[Gerritt]

Had enough baby sitting for one night. I think we have our answer to the question at hand. Have a good night folks.