Slevin Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Hey I am passing this message on from another fishing board I read. If you don't know Gord he is an award winning writer for Canada Outdoors and In-Fisherman magazines. In the north bass are not as popular as they are in southern Ontario and in many areas they are seen as a nuisance. They already have a year round open season and they now have a proposal to increase daily limits and allow unlimited daily possessions through the winter and spawning season. Here is his request. From Gord Pyzer Hi folks ... I have a huge favour to ask of each one of you. The Fisheries Management Plan for Zone 5 in Northwestern Ontario is currently under review and what is being proposed for bass is extremely troubling. A small group of folks, who are opposed to bass, have persuaded the MNR to include the option of killing four (4) bass, <35 cm in size, every day of fishing during the critical winter and spring spawning periods. In other words, from November 30th to July 1st. All of the major research into managing bass populations - especially fragile northern bass populations - that has been carried out by OMNR scientists like Dr. Mark Ridgway and Dr. David Philip, clearly shows that targeting bass in the winter and when they are spawning in the spring has major negative effects on both the over all bass population and the age class structure. Quite simply, the research is very clear that there are absolutely no redeeming qualities when anglers fish for bass in the winter and during the spawn. Indeed, Dr. Philips research in southeastern Ontario, where the bass season is closed during the winter and spring, shows that in some lakes 100% of the nesting males exhibit hook wounds and were the season to be open, it is conceivable that the entire population of spawning males could be killed and harvested. Unfortunately, the small pocket of anglers in and around the Atikokan area have attempted to "hijack" the process. Quite frankly, they do not like bass and wish to see bass eliminated and removed from the lakes and rivers in the region, despite the fact that bass have been present in NW Ontario for over 100 years. What is even more incredulous, however, is the fact that maintaining the "status quo" and keeping the regulations we currently have, is not even an option that is being offered to anglers during the planning process. This is akin to asking ... "would you prefer to be hanged, electrocuted or killed by lethal injection" ... without offering the option of staying alive! Indeed, without the status quo option even being offered, the process is completely flawed. I would not presume to tell you what to say, but I can tell you that the science is crystal clear: Killing bass when they are most vulnerable over the winter, and especially when they are nesting in the spring, results in severe negative consequences. As Ontario anglers, these are YOUR FISH and you have the right to provide input before the process closes on November 30th. I would ask but one favour, simply send an email to the following two OMNR biologists and tell them what you think. Barry Corbett ... barry.corbett@ontario.ca Darryl McLeod ... darryl.mcleod@ontario.ca Barry and Darryl are both great guys, who have advised me that they will ensure your comments are taken to the planning committee. All you need to say is that you do not support the harvest/killing of bass in the winter and spring when they are nesting and that a protective winter/spring bass season needs to be implemented in Northwestern Ontario, identical to that which is in place in southern Ontario. And remember, the deadline for comments is November 30th so send the boys an email now. Thanks folks ... but more importantly, the bass thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladeburner Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 "A small group of people opposed to bass?" What is that supposed to mean, and why? Im not a bass angler, but I dont see any logical reason to be "opposed" to them. I know some dont like Musky because they suppossedly eat all the Walleye in a lake... But bass? Seems ridiculous. As far as Im concerned, the limits on all species across Ontario is already too high. Too target and kill them during the spawn, or winter is crazy. Seems like a great way to protect and preserve our resources.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnfishguy11 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 There are lakes in Northern Ontario where smallmouth are considered invasive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I dunno they seem to be fine down south... I haven't targeted bass in years, I'm sure a lot others are the same... Id rather fish for something that takes a lil skill or a better eating fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 My letter to the 2 government men. Per Gord's letter, I am against the government's intervention on a species that cannot speak for itself. Killing a species that is not invasive and poses no threat is morally wrong. Please seek out your conscience on this matter and spend some time considering how this move is base and unethical. Perhaps think of the pictures of dead muskies from earlier in the 20th century to stir your compassion for a harmless creature. It is not your job to make people happy, but to do what is morally sound and right. Such an attack on the species is an attack on those who respect them. We will not go gently into this night. I for one will be ringing the bells here in Southern Ontario for all to hear, good or bad. This is a microcosm for the end of democracy. Stand together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Dear Sirs I am very shocked by your proposed changes in the regulations regarding bass in Northern Ontario. I feel that the pressure brought to bear by a few may be affecting the enjoyment and utilization of a resource by many. Also by allowing people to plunder the resource and act in a manner that in other management zones is illegal is very close to being irresponsible. If people feel that it is okay to act as such in one area they will act that way in others. You will be promoting the idea that individuals are a law unto themselves. " If I don't like these fish I'll just kill them and rid the waters of them" " Why not? They do it over there." These fish also add economic value to the area. Smallmouth bass are a very popular sportfish and anglers spend money to fish for them. This is especially true for anglers coming from the US to fish here. They are the life blood of many small towns, outfitters and others that earn a living from those visiting anglers. I think you are ignoring the fact that the more species that there are to fish for the less fishing pressure on each individual species. I hope that you will consider this when making the changes to the regulations in Zone 5. Sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bites Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I got an email back saying I needed to send my comments to brian.w.jackson@ontario.ca. Email even had an attachment to the proposed plan and what the options are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I dunno they seem to be fine down south... I haven't targeted bass in years, I'm sure a lot others are the same... Id rather fish for something that takes a lil skill or a better eating fish. Talk to me when you catch 8 pounders at the drop of a hat, then you can say bass fishing doesn't take skill! When have bass not been good eating? I guess carp aren't sporting either! Keep it down trout fan boy, everyone has a preference but you don't need to knock others passions because you would be writing the same thing, right now if they did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 If the bass were invasive and had a negative affect on the native species, then I can't disagree with the decision! Look at it from this angle, let's say the bass were silver carp (or whatever other invasive species in our proximity) and they were decimating native species, wouldn't you want to kill the hell out of them!?!? Very rarely do I disagree with Gord Pyzer, but I need more facts before I make a decision...and I'm a bass guy! PS - I don't think any animal that can be eaten, should be killed and wasted. Hopefully that will be a stipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Talk to me when you catch 8 pounders at the drop of a hat, then you can say bass fishing doesn't take skill! When have bass not been good eating? I guess carp aren't sporting either! Keep it down trout fan boy, everyone has a preference but you don't need to knock others passions because you would be writing the same thing, right now if they did! Lol I don't really fish trout much so nice try, love how ya jumped down my throat then flip flopped in next post... All I was really tryin to say is alot of States are year round Bass season and the Bass are thriving down there. I guess I shoulda left out the scond part my apologies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnfishguy11 Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Lol I don't really fish trout much so nice try, love how ya jumped down my throat then flip flopped in next post... All I was really tryin to say is alot of States are year round Bass season and the Bass are thriving down there. I guess I shoulda left out the scond part my apologies... Your original comment was unwarrented and took a shot at all bass anglers. and as he stated smallies are excellent for eating. And please dont associate the south with our north as the ecosystems are completely different. They hold different species, different forage and different benthics. Also most southern fishing is all largies, and Im 99% the species in question here are small mouth bass. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrorshowrot Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Guys please keep it civil it does not matter what anyone fish. I agree with Josh we can not associate our ecosystem with any down south, look at the bass in Florida they are massive one of the reasons is because of the food and climate they do not suffer from winter months as much as the bass here do thus giving the Florida bass a lot more time to grow then the ones here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'd want to know more before weighing in with an opinion. My questions, in no particular order are as follows: 1) Are the bass native or introduced? 2) If introduced, was the introduction legal (ie. government sanctioned and undertaken)? 3) What other species are present and are they native? 4) What sort of ecosystem is involved (marshy, soft bottom and acidic or rocky and alkaline)? 5) Is the watershed isolated or connected to other watersheds? I'm sure other questions will occur to me, but that's it for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrorshowrot Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Hello Barry, it is great to speak with you! I have read a few articles based upon your fisheries management plan for Zone 5 in Northwestern Ontario. I am very discouraged as to what is going on. I believe that if this act does come to pass, it will do a lot more harm then good. For starters killing a Ontario game fish is just wrong. Not only that but if people start killing (4 bass) a day that number will sky rocket thus causing another problem, be it the bass eradicated from our local fishing holes or the bass not being up to trophy size. There is nothing better then hauling in a beautiful bass. Secondly, if people are hauling off spawning bass and killing them the fry will be left defenseless killing a lot more then just the 4 per day. The number could potentially be in the thousands. Not only will new fry-ling's be killed off but this will also create less food for larger predators of the lakes,rivers and streams. Which could potentially be a bullet in the foot because pike may not be able to get as big as some of the monsters I have caught in zone 5. And from my experience small bass make a great meal for a nice sized pike. And thirdly I do believe that if we start culling off the bass, people who spearheaded this will want to eradicate bass from these fishing holes altogether. Which I do not think people are fully understanding the impact on not only the fishing environment, but also the community's that thrive from bass fishing be it through tournaments, local tackle shops, or even the locals Tim's everyone needs a good cup of joe after a nice day fishing. And one tournament I can see clearly that will suffer greatly if not the most is the Atikokan Bass Classic. Which had a very nice payout to the top 10 weigh ins $37,300. And for a population of around 2,700 people that is a great chunk of cash. Not only for the 10 weigh ins but the business that local stores will receive when that tournament is running. Again thank you for your time reading this and as an avid fisherman I do hope these actions are considered. Jordan and Nikki Scholtens I stand by, we should never try to eradicate a game fish of Ontario. Look at how hard trout unlimited is trying to get brookies back into the 12 mile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bites Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Here's a link to the proposed changes, http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@letsfish/documents/document/stdprod_100475.pdf, the section on bass starts at page 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'm not comfortable commenting on the North Western Ontario fishery plans, That area has it's own unique ecosystems and should be managed accordingly. What works here in Southern Ontario may not be in the best interest of the North Western Fishery, what we may think is unacceptable here may be a needed plan in that area. I think as anglers and resisidents of Southern Ontario we should not influence fishery plans that will have no affect on us and allow the local experts and biologists to sort out whats best. It may very well be that Bass populations are creating problems for the other fisheries and some cull or what ever is needed, I don't have enough information on the subject and believe the decisions made should be from unbiais fishery studies and not by area anglers desires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwolRJ Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Your original comment was unwarrented and took a shot at all bass anglers. and as he stated smallies are excellent for eating. And please dont associate the south with our north as the ecosystems are completely different. They hold different species, different forage and different benthics. Also most southern fishing is all largies, and Im 99% the species in question here are small mouth bass. Josh Your associtating all of ontario? The ecosystem I gues magically changed at the us border? The Smallmouth Bass in Ny, PA and other bordering States are totally different species I get it now thanks... What do you think about guys on this board getting NY license and fishing year round in your home waters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairwelsh Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I fish for and repect all species. I am generally a huge PROMOTER of Catch & Release (Due to pressured fishing) I prefer less catch limits than CLOSED SEASONS. Not hundred percent on all the facts in this case, so my thoughts are twofold (sitting on the fence) 1. I would support a "cull" or higher retention rate (Havesting) if the Native Species are being severely affected by the Bass. *I noticed the great propoganda of word usage in the OP (KILLING... instead of harvest, limit..) Kudo's 2. I do not support a higher retention rate if no solid evidence can be made AGAINST the Bass populations. I would support LOWERING the retention rate if need be. * PS: Pound for Pound, the SMALL MOUTH BASS that i catch in the Grand River and it's Tribs (Speed, Eromosa) have been some of the BEST FIGHTING FISH I have ever had the pleasure to tangle with! They are smart, aggressive and super strong in the rivers. I would NEVER want to see this type of fishery be lost to me (Selfish lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scapulataf Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'm not comfortable commenting on the North Western Ontario fishery plans, That area has it's own unique ecosystems and should be managed accordingly. What works here in Southern Ontario may not be in the best interest of the North Western Fishery, what we may think is unacceptable here may be a needed plan in that area. I think as anglers and resisidents of Southern Ontario we should not influence fishery plans that will have no affect on us and allow the local experts and biologists to sort out whats best. It may very well be that Bass populations are creating problems for the other fisheries and some cull or what ever is needed, I don't have enough information on the subject and believe the decisions made should be from unbiais fishery studies and not by area anglers desires I have to agree with this. People in Northern Ont. and beyond already female dog that Ontario's policies are dictated by what a few people in Toronto want, and not whats good for the people in Kenora, Thunder Bay, Red Lake et.al. I've never fished further north than Magnetawan and have no idea what the issues may be up there. There are two sides to every story, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snags Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'm not comfortable commenting on the North Western Ontario fishery plans, That area has it's own unique ecosystems and should be managed accordingly. What works here in Southern Ontario may not be in the best interest of the North Western Fishery, what we may think is unacceptable here may be a needed plan in that area. I think as anglers and resisidents of Southern Ontario we should not influence fishery plans that will have no affect on us and allow the local experts and biologists to sort out whats best. It may very well be that Bass populations are creating problems for the other fisheries and some cull or what ever is needed, I don't have enough information on the subject and believe the decisions made should be from unbiais fishery studies and not by area anglers desires One of the best posts on this board. Ever! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairwelsh Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingNoob Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Id rather fish for something that takes a lil skill or a better eating fish. I'll pretend not to take offense to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Bass can wipe out a native brook trout population if they've been artificially introduced to a lake where they do not belong. If this is the case here, by all means it should be open season on bass year round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Lol I don't really fish trout much so nice try, love how ya jumped down my throat then flip flopped in next post... All I was really tryin to say is alot of States are year round Bass season and the Bass are thriving down there. I guess I shoulda left out the scond part my apologies... I didn't flip-flop on anything. I defended bass and bass fishing, which you attacked...because apparantley you are the best bass fisherman on earth. The next post, like a paragraph, portrays a different thought. I don't believe that introduced species have the same inherent rights as native species, even if it is bass. Those bass were introduced in some areas and created a new ecosystem.With proper management and a reasonable cull, the non-native species can still thrive as well as the native species. I don't think a total eradication of bass is good for the northern economy or ecosystem...and yes, we need to worry about that as well. With a decline in bass and a low population of trout,larger predatory fish like musky and pike would suffer with no small bass to eat, if they are the largest biomass in that water system. Not to mention predatory mammals and birds of prey! What ever you fish for, it won't be there long if we abuse and mismanage our resources! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Warming trends may also be accelerating their numbers. I like eating bass out of cold water. Why does the dude make so much sense lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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