Fish Ladder

[salmonman]

The first thing to consider while doing a study on this is the resident populations that already exist in the creek, browns, rainbows, but mostly brookies. Looking at all the systems that have lake-run and resident populations in them, you would have to figure out what the impacts of migrating fish would have on the resident brookie populations.

Secondly, the only 2 species of migrating fish that you would have to worry about are the bows and the salmon. Sure some browns would head up, but browns tend to be less migratory then the salmon and bows, they tend to stick closer to the areas where they are born or stocked. Salmon will reproduce if the creek is healthy enough and large enough to support a population. Salmon reproduce a lot more then you give them credit for, they have natrural reproducing populations in the credit, wilmot, the ganny and some other eastern tribs as well. A lot more of them then you think come out of natural populations. The bows would probably have tremendous success, given that there are the right conditions and spawning grounds. The fact that there is already a resident population that exists is a sign that the watershed is healthy enough to support a lake-run rainbow population, just like i said before you would have to figure out what impacts it would have on that population.

Thirdly, if they were going to build a fish ladder, there is always the problem with the fish returning, but they would obviously build a way to get back down. Fish are not that intelligent though and some would probably get caught in the turbines, only the bows because the salmon would probably be dead.

hope these points help

tightlines

salmonman

[Guest chilli]

Well said salmonman

Here's my oppinion on the returning fish in the turbines.

In Port dahousie which is primarilly not good spawning grounds for the fish, the success rate would be minimal due to fishing pressure, amount of fish in one spot (eating the spawn, disturbing nests etc) and concentration of predatory fish like gobies. Face it, it's a smorg.

If the fish were able to get up stream a (percentage) of them would remain in Port and others would go upstream to spawn. I believe that it wouldn't make a difference in success in Port D due to the lack of space anyway, but there would be a new adddition of young fish added to the waterway from above. More room to spawn = more offspring..

Here's a link with a study of young fish and the rate of mortality accosiated with turbines. It states that an older turbine with inferior design can kill up to 30% of the young returning fish. New designs for turbines have that # much lower. I imagine in St Catharines,ON, Canada we have whatever turbine would produce hydro while sticking to the budget. So I'll assume a 30% loss of young.

Here's the Link

So take the new generation of young fish and subtract 30% then add to the #'s that were spawned in Port Dahousie and (my oppinion only) I think you'll have alot more young reentering the lake.

[ROB MCINTOSH]

RE:FISH LADDER. Ok here we go, some of you read my post on the fish ladder on ofn so I don't want to re post here unless someone knows how to transfer it to this sight, you have my ok to do that. Anyway we the game & fish have been involved with the stocking of fish for 20 or more years in port and the numbers over the years are around 1 mill or more. the servival rate is somewear around the 30 to 40 % rate, This is unexceptable as far as we are concerned but what can you do with what we are dealing with, LAKE ONTARIO alot of you should take a second look at the lake it self before you try and push to get a fish ladder, first of all it will not happen beleive me their is to much$$$$$ in rowing and there is the stopper the $$$$$ speaks and the fish population has no say I could realy get into this but I'm not atleast not at this time we have more important things to tackel at this time. We are loosing more and more fishing areas every year we need to stop this before we have nothing but lovely land scape and a lake that you can drink the water and play,swim boat and anything else you do but as far as fish this lake will be DEAD IN MY LIFETIME is this what every one want's a dead lake, as far as the treebuggers go YES this would say they won we the fishermen LOOSE because who will come here to fish a DEAD lake,let me splane lucy, When the gouv. stoped all fosferiuos out of landry soap and other polutents to make the lake clean they were not thinking of down the road, you need to have micronissims to support the food chain and over the years we have recived the zebra mussels for free and our lake is getting cleaner by the hour BUT how clean do we want this lake ?????? I'm looking at having a meet & greet before xmas at the game & fish club house in port and i'm hopeing all shore and boat anglers show up and I will get into the ladder isues and anything else that you wish, aslong as it don't turn into a bashing isue or I will shut it down and you will be on your own to get things done, If we use the game & fish to get things done I think alot more will happen we have a very good repour with this city and mnr , also rooker rd is under the game and fish and anything that happen's there or in the area will go threw them, so numbers/members can move anything so on that note i will wait till the meet&greet or look me up in port (fishermans pier) and we can shoot the breeze THANKS ROB MCINTOSH

[Guest chilli]

Thankyou and I'm happy that Rob has joined us here at NFN and is even somewhat entertained at revisiting the idea.

[Guest canukflyguy]

Hello everyone, new to the board. I,ve been reading some interesting topics on the board lately and thought that I would try to add my own two cents. Chilli, I think that a fish ladder would be a excellent idea, anything to help promote fishing.ie more fish, more fishing spots. I have talked to a few people over the past and they have said they would love to see bows up top. Has anyone ever seen the ladder at Beaver Creek by Collingwood, it is a tourist attraction! And it's really cool watching the fish swim up. Rob Mcintosh, I don't really see your point about not putting a ladder in. Other than not being able to fish in the certain area that you described, would it not be good to have a healthy run up Port D year in year out? I might be wrong in this, but isn't the ladder at Beaver Creek the only one like it in North America? I wonder how much that cost to have installed?

[Guest Steelheader]

Hey Rob,

Maybe we could have some sort of fundraiser in the river, like "Race a bar of soap to the first buoy" or something like that. That would help with the phosphate levels too.

[ROB MCINTOSH]

That'sa good one Steelheader it would maybe help clean off the bottom of the boats to but I was serious about the fosforius I didn't want to get into it here but If I have to here you go. The other isues I have with fish spauning up on martindale are the amount of course fish up there like perch,crappie, bluegill catfish, sucker carp, pike, and of cource lmbass, smbass and what ever else, now do you think that these fish would love to have a harveys(rainbow) mcdonalds(salmon) A&W(browns) move in to supply them with a smorg with the amount of new fry comming to their table , what do you think the servivel rate will be 10 to 15 % or lower. So don't you think spending the $$$$$ on something else would make sence and worth while like maybe a worff at the rock's to stand on to fish, or more stocking numbers like 200,000 rainbows,browns and salmon for the G&F to stock each year,there are alot of isues once you open your mind up and really think about the whole picture and not just the ladder, don't get me wrong here I would love to have a ladder but I'm in a position to look at the future picture not the present.And after we are gone I don't want the future angler's say who are the dummies that put this thing in when the fish don't make it back to the lake We can talk more on this at the G&F MEET & GREET if thats what you guy's want I'm pretty resonable to sugestions thanks ROB

[Fishin-nut]

Looking forward to your meet and greet catfish