Losing Faith in the MNR

[Dan Andrews]

Well on Denis' board there was a conversation started about the walleye season closing today on the Upper Niagara River. According the the 2006 reg which we are supposed to follow until the 07 regs come out, walleye are closed from the top of Niagara Falls to the Detroit River.

There was however an announcement that all 2006 regs were to be followed until the new one came with the exception of a few announcements like the year round open season of walleye and a 6 fish limit starting January first 2007.

The announcement did not include whether this applies to div 2 from the 2006 regs or FMZ 19 from the new system. This new FMZ system has included div 1+2 so that the St Clair River, Lake St Clair, Detroit River, Lake Erie and the Upper Niagara River are all in the same zone now.

I've called Vineland without an answer. $20 in long distance later still no answers. The 1 800 hotline is a joke! and they didn't even know about the 2007 announcements. They couldn't tell me exactly whether or not the Upper Niagara is closed today and they stated "I guess it's left up to determination". I stated that's what I'll tell the conservation officer when he fines me and I get labled as a poacher!

I had the same problem with the hotline when inquiring about hunting seasons. They don't know because they're just a bunch of houswives with a part time job answering phones. They suggested I call my local office and transferred me back to Vineland. Several calls and talking to a dam electronic voice and I still haven't got verification.

OK I think this is where Rob is going to come in and say " Thanks for the support guys when we had that MNR meeting in October to bring attention to the Government that the funding for the MNR is insufficient! "

Ya Ya I know...................

Just shut up and fish!

[frghtlnr2005]

Well Dan

I got your answer for you on the mnr site about the 2007 regs

Here is the link to it http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/csb/news/2006/dec20bg_06.html

hope this helps you out .

Dallas

And you are right about what Rob is going to say

[Dan Andrews]

The problem with that announcement is it states Lake Erie. It doesn't give a formal boundry like Div 2 or FMZ 19.

I finally got a call late yesterday afternoon by the Vineland office

Greg Belmore (905 562-1176) assured me that the new regs are in place for walleye but they apply to div 2 as drawn in the old regs. This is not the kind of announcement the MNR should be making. It should have said the new walleye reg apply effective Jan 1st to div 2 only. They never should have published an imaginary zone like "Lake Erie" on their web site. If they want to publish this kind of incompetance they ought to have staff manning the hotline who actually know what they are talking about. Not a bunch of part timers who are reading from the same book I'm asking questions from. Like I said, the hotline didn't even know about the Dec 20th announcements and they gave me incorrect hunting regs and told me the new regs were left up to ones determination

As for the new books coming out soon, don't hold your breath. It's being held up at a Federal level. Mr Belmore informed me that the MNR has already submitted the new reg for Federal approval and are praying for April 20th. If an election is called or oil goes up 20 cents a barrel we may be waiting for the 09 regs instead

I was told the first place they will announce or release the regs is the web site so keep an eye there.

This whole thing makes me mad because the reason they were creating the whole new system was to simplify it for anglers. Instead we don't know what's open or closed on important dates like yesterday.

Dan

[Dan Andrews]

Hold everything

I just got an email from a fourth MNR source and was given another answer

4 different MNR contacts - 4 different answers.

Let me suggest that if you catch a walleye anywhere until the old opener date in May, that you put it back. Who knows if your legally responsible anymore but I just requested a Regional sit down and suggested the Feds will never pass the new Regs if MNR staff can't even decyfer them.

If I ever get a colaborated answer from the MNR with actual boundries, I will come here and make an announcment and pin it!

Dan

[Guest canadadude]

Hold everything

I just got an email from a fourth MNR source and was given another answer

4 different MNR contacts - 4 different answers.

Let me suggest that if you catch a walleye anywhere until the old opener date in May, that you put it back. Who knows if your legally responsible anymore but I just requested a Regional sit down and suggested the Feds will never pass the new Regs if MNR staff can't even decyfer them.

If I ever get a colaborated answer from the MNR with actual boundries, I will come here and make an announcment and pin it!

Dan

Keep anything you want if they don't know the law and can't produce current regulations then how can they make a bust stick in a court of law!! As a matter of fact when I worked for the MNR they could never win a court case they managed to screw up every charge they made!!! If the public ever took fines they got from the Ministry to court the conviction rate would be 20-1 for the public obviously from what Dan has been through you can see how unorganised and totally useless this ministry is!!!Compared to any Province or Territory in this country Ontario is the worst in managing it's Natural Resources it is down right scary for the future of Fish and Wildlife in this Province Funding is not the answer either because no matter how much $$$$$$$$$ is injected into the MNR its just a waste of money, there is absolutly no direction or care for $$$$ spent and monies are just thrown around trying to correct stupid decisions made at the MNR!!! They don't even know about regulations that there own ministry has made it's a complete joke and a terrible waste of Taxpayers $$$$$ nobody seems to be held accountable for anything,just a free for all,and people wonder why there broke all the time!!!

[smerchly]

I can't put all the blame on the MNR ......it's just one of many gov't .cutbacks like our health system . Most of the CO's out there are very knowledgeable on the regs, but they can only go by the books . Since funding has been cut , they have to use whatever resourses they have left to produce the new regs.book. I think there should be more input from fishing clubs , and the OFAH etc. before deciding what goes into printing the regs . Ya , get that kid with the crayons too ......

[Guest canadadude]

More input like what, have them run the Hatcheries aswell ........they already do that anymore input you my aswell give the whole stinking MNR to OFAH and private clubs!! Why fund a Ministry that does absolutly nothing!! The MNR has turned into a very expensive government run JOKE!!!

[bigugli]

The only answer from the Mnr reps @ the show is that the 05/06 regs remain in force until the new regs are ready. Seems a few others have been rattling chains.

[Dan Andrews]

Well I just got an email with a detailed explanation of the changes and boundries. I'm just waiting for confirmation from MNR that it's Ok to copy and paste to the internet but it does appear that the Upper Niagara is now closed

Pops I agree with John on this one as the clubs are already responsible for too much. With active members on the decline this could be bad news for the resources.

I do however see the need for more input from the clubs. Fort Erie and Port Colbourne are very active in the walleye programs and regs but I don't see the G&F talking salmon with the MNR.

Once again I must point out that last years "ANGLER OUTREACH" program had a dissapointing turn out. For those of you who didn't even know the program existed to give you an opportunity to tell the MNR what common sense would do, try going to your local club and reading the bulletin board once in awhile.

Dan

[ROB MCINTOSH]

Dan: Well I asked and got a bit of atitude, only because they have been swamped with all kinds of questions. What I got was this 2007 REGS ARE 2006 REGS SO GO BY THE BOOK FOR EVERYTHING.

[Dan Andrews]

Well hopefully they will get the email I got today.

The open all year walleye season that we announced in late December only

applies to Lake Erie. I just assumed it included the upper Niagara River

because it is part of the old Division 2 and the new Fisheries

Management Zone 19.

The open all year walleye season in Division 1 was already in effect and

continues for 2007.

The walleye open season, as well as the other changes announced in late

December including the opening of bass season on the fourth Saturday in

June, was done though what is called a Variation Order, which means we

alter an existing regulation rather than creating a new one. A variation

order can usually be done in months, rather than the year or more that a

new regulation requires. Anglers on Lake Erie, especially in the west

end, and the OFAH were pushing hard for an open walleye season since the

commercial fishing industry was allowed to catch walleye in the spring

(although it was a reduced amount, and there are some walleye

sanctuaries in the west and central basins where gill nets are not

allowed during spawning time).

I have contacted Greg Belmore and Kathy Richardson at the Vineland

office with the correct information. I will contact the Natural Resource

Information Centre as well.

Thanks for asking the question, but I hope we do better the next time

you ask us a question.

Sincerely,

John Cooper

Lake Erie Management Unit

Ministry of Natural Resources

London

519-873-4613

[bigugli]

That certainly was a better response than most govt. replies. Heck, they admitted to having screwed up. Ya don't see it, or hear it, too often, At least it clears the confusion.