The Ontario Human Rights commission

[fanggo]

ENTITLED: FISHING WITHOUT FEAR

Background :

On December 14, 2007, the Ontario Human Rights Commission (“Commission”) released its Preliminary Findings of the Inquiry Into Assaults on Asian Canadian Anglers. The goal of the Inquiry was to learn more about the nature of verbal and physical assaults reported by Asian Canadian anglers that occurred in regions of southern and eastern Ontario in the summer and fall of 2007.

Reported Incidents:

Reports of racial insults, demanding to see their licenses, checking their fish quota, throwing their fishing gear into the water, pushing them in the water.

Six charges were filed and five arrests were made.

News media reported that some Asian Canadians were “terrified” to go fishing.

***

TORONTO, May 13 /CNW/ - The Ontario Human Rights Commission today

released the results of its Inquiry into assaults on Asian Canadian Anglers

launched last November in partnership with the Metro Toronto Chinese and

Southeast Asian Legal Clinic.

The report confirms that racial profiling played a role in the experiences of harassment and assaults on Asian Canadian

anglers. Specifically, concerns were raised throughout the Inquiry about

stereotyping Asian Canadians as more likely than others to engage in unlawful

fishing. This is a form of racial profiling.

In total, the Commission met with 21 organizations and obtained over 50

commitments that will collectively work towards preventing future occurrences

of racism and discrimination.

The York Regional Police has also established initiatives to increase

community safety during this year's fishing season.

Report Highlights:

-Developing teaching and resource materials around racism and hate activity, using the angler incidents as examples (Ministry of Education, various boards of education)

-Developing a race relations committee in Georgina with the assistance of the police (municipality of Georgina, York Regional Police Service)

-Developing a brochure in multiple languages regarding the angler incidents, ensuring that people know where to call for assistance (Ontario Provincial Police)

-Placing a statement on the City of Kawartha Lakes web site, referencing the incidents and condemning racism and discrimination. Asking for increased police presence in the area (City of Kawartha Lakes)

-Providing training on racial profiling to conservation officers to equip them to respond to complaints that may be based on racial profiling (Ministry of Natural Resources)

-Providing training on anti-racism and anti-discrimination to teachers (Conseil Scolaire de District Catholique Centre – Sud)

-Establishing a police-stakeholder working group to further review and respond to recommendations of the Hate Crimes Community Working Group report that affect policing (Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services)

-Monitoring reports of any similar incidents over the fishing season in 2008. The Commission will also support organizations with fulfilling their commitments, and will share information on the progress throughout the year (Ontario Human Rights Commission).

[smerchly]

Time to put limits per licence on ALL fish ! Racial profiling is a goverment cop out . The cops can't even put on paper that 80 % of the gun crimes are &$%@# related . If everyone simply obeyed the rules , we would not have near the problem . Time also for written fishing tests to a least I.D. the species and know the limits .........like taking a 5 gal pail full of small mouth bass home for the grinder........And yes , violence towards people who break the rules is not the answer.......a few words of wisdom may help , or a cell phone call to the MNR Tips line may help them learn quicker........

[Smokin Joe]

Time to put limits per licence on ALL fish ! Racial profiling is a goverment cop out . The cops can't even put on paper that 80 % of the gun crimes are &$%@# related . If everyone simply obeyed the rules , we would not have near the problem . Time also for written fishing tests to a least I.D. the species and know the limits .........like taking a 5 gal pail full of small mouth bass home for the grinder........And yes , violence towards people who break the rules is not the answer.......a few words of wisdom may help , or a cell phone call to the MNR Tips line may help them learn quicker........

I agree and let's not forget that a picture is worth a 1000 words. We should force the goverment to take the actions necessary.

[Bassmaster]

I think the answer to this issue is this, whether they be Asian or whatever, they have to be told it is simply NOT acceptable to put every single fish they catch into a white bucket. Keeping a few for a meal is one thing but the practice of putting game and coarse fish alike no matter how small it is into the bucket til it's full is what is causing all of the uproar.

This should be spelled out in clear language in the yearly regs and I know they are printed in Chinese or whatever so there should be no excuse IMHO. I mean the MNR is always telling us about illegal and exotic bait so what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

I know I'm living in a dreamworld if I think the MNR is gonna put "education officers" at strategic bodies of water.

[bigugli]

Nice little cop out report. There is a problem that originates from a basic disrespect for the law. Literature, pamphlets, websites, are all cheap alternatives to enforcing the existing laws. Whether it be the white bucket brigade or the rednecks. The province is too cheap to hire appropriate personnel to enforce the laws.

[fanggo]

There were 50 recommendations - although I only included a few of the ones proposed because that was all I could find on line - the radio reports did cover much more and there were 42 more to be exact.

I do believe that with 5 arrests out of 6 accusations and this report, that the province directed. as well as the advisory group are doing their job. we are trying to be on top of things. How could anybody think that we are not?

This is not only about fishing - it is about racism. And YES I know that the Orientals seem to take garbage bags full of sunfish away with them,

and YES I know that we are not used to seeing them on our shores fishing beside us. And YES I know that this area in particular will take longer

to adjust to the infiltration of different looking people, and YES I know for a fact that in the Kawarthas, when I had my lodge there and called the Ministry

about fishing violations that the lazy *&*%^*&% siad "Don't worry." And my calls were about US not the Chinese that came to my dock.

I believe that because the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic were involved form the start on this one. They have made the RULES as well as this Fishing Without Fear available to all of them by publishing this in the various dialogues, that this is indeed a good thing. And I believe that

by making it ware to all of us that you just can't/NOT TOLERATED/illegal, be nasty at anybody fishing that you don't know, seems too young to rebuttal, or is of another race.

Just my thoughts.

[smerchly]

By no means do I imply these people are all ignorant or playing dumb ......I have met many real nice ones who I enjoy fishing & talking with . SOME are just very crude & haven't been mannered in other ways , like pushing their way between you & your partner , or moving their boat so close to your boat you could jump in ! And I don't know why SOME think garbage should be left on the ground ......we have these little green bags...... And I've also seen our "good ole local boys" getting hammered up & leaving their trash as well . If the goverment is so concerned about violence ......then educate the new comers BEFORE they get a licence . Get the clubs involved in making up a page in the regs devoted to fishing ediquette & keeping our environment clean . BIG fines would help for all infractions & help defray the costs of implimenting the rules . And we shouldn't have to form "posses" to watch for poachers.......the gov't is not doing it's job . Violence happens out of frustration due to lack of enforcement.....but what else is new when it comes to law & punishment in this country ?

[fanggo]

... The cops can't even put on paper that 80 % of the gun crimes are &$%@# related ...

I know this is right off topic but I have to agree with you.

I have two pet peeves - you voiced the first. An area that I just don't understand how it could not be harnessed or was allowed to fester.

I lived in Toronto when the Jane and Finch area was starting to teach their young (early 70's).

Nothing was done to stop or diversify it then and look now.

But our larger cites not only deal with the young blacks, the Chinese Mafia, they still have not handled the Italian crime or the bikers.

Do we tolerate what we are used to and scream about the new comers???????????

[bigugli]

There were 50 recommendations - although I only included a few of the ones proposed because that was all I could find on line - the radio reports did cover much more and there were 42 more to be exact.

I do believe that with 5 arrests out of 6 accusations and this report, that the province directed. as well as the advisory group are doing their job. we are trying to be on top of things. How could anybody think that we are not?

This is not only about fishing - it is about racism. And YES I know that the Orientals seem to take garbage bags full of sunfish away with them,

and YES I know that we are not used to seeing them on our shores fishing beside us. And YES I know that this area in particular will take longer

to adjust to the infiltration of different looking people, and YES I know for a fact that in the Kawarthas, when I had my lodge there and called the Ministry

about fishing violations that the lazy *&*%^*&% siad "Don't worry." And my calls were about US not the Chinese that came to my dock.

I believe that because the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic were involved form the start on this one. They have made the RULES as well as this Fishing Without Fear available to all of them by publishing this in the various dialogues, that this is indeed a good thing. And I believe that

by making it ware to all of us that you just can't/NOT TOLERATED/illegal, be nasty at anybody fishing that you don't know, seems too young to rebuttal, or is of another race.

Just my thoughts.

My comments have nothing to do about fishing. They are about law. Our society presently views the law as something to get around or evade; bend the rules; doesn't apply to me, etc... Or I'll worry about it if I get caught. People can have this behaviour because our government does not have the oomph to insist on real penalties and consequences. It is afraid of putting people in prison for any length of time. It is unwilling to spend serious money on improved law enforcement.

Look at the 60 day sentence often done on weekends at the Thorold Hilton. You check in Friday afternoon. and you are out Saturday because they don't do Sunday discharges. The courts don't want the culprit to lose his job! The culprit should have thought about it before breaking the law.

I have yet to hear of anyone getting dinged with a $500-$1000 fine for littering here in Niagara or on our major highways. Thousands of dollars spent on littering signs that are no more than a joke.

I have waited 15 hours for police to attend a break-in. Dispatch claimed the police were swamped with calls., but there were 3 cruisers sitting at the Tims around the corner. When an officer did finally attend we were politely told that he was there to issue a report and that was all. Saw no need to collect evidence as the break-in was obviously the work of minors under the influence, and that little could be done about it. That same force now wants a new bigger HQ with a big price tag, and the politicians fight over the location. I can think of better ways of spending that money.

Instead of printing more paper and creating more bureaucratic drivel, put the money into effective policing. Those reports and papers are not going to stop a redneck, any more than the littering signs stop the slobs, or slick anti-drug ad campaigns hurt dope dealers. There is a limit placed on enforcement because the government at all levels will not build adequate prisons to hold our human trash. Instead we get revolving door justice, light fines, weekend or suspended sentences.

I do not hold the enforcement staff responsible for any of this . They can only do what resources allow. A CO can only hit the road for so many days before he uses up his fuel allowance. A cop can do little with a teen because of young offender legislation. Our prison system is overtaxed and routinely releases dangerous people to make room for new convicts. Take a look at the drunks who still manage to keep their license becuase of a technicality, and many of those who do have their license suspended still drive. There are no real consequences to stop them.

The report and recommendations of the OHRC are there simply to placate a finacially influential minority group because their dollars equal votes come election time. The money could have been better spent on more cops or surveillance of hot spots.

[AwolRJ]

What would happen if we went and kept all the fish we caught, littered and did this in there country? I imagine the crime is way more severe over there. I think they take Canada's laws for a joke. I felt bad for all the nipper tipping going on last summer, till I went smelt fishing in queenston this year. I walked to the water looking for a spot and a old asian man turned around in the water and relieved himself while pointing at me, glad I didn't bring my daughter, cause He wouldve been floating downstream! They had rubber maid bins full of smelt, rockbass and emerald shiners, what do you think they wouldve done if they netted a walleye or trout?

I wouldn't waste my time assaulting them, they arent worth the trouble, It's funny how short we forget, wasn't long ago my grandpa was in korea fighting them, then my uncle in Vietnam, before that we dropped a nuke on japan. They musta all forgotten about that too? Thats all fine though, cause now we fighting with the middle east and there as many of them in our area as there is white ppl, mights well bring the troops back from Afghan and Iraq and send em to Toronto, all the ppl we let in this country Osama probaly here too! I don't care if I sound racist, do they care that there raping our resources?

[smerchly]

I don't think your post is racist AW.....& it's good to see you have strong feelings about what we fought for years ago . Many soldiers would roll over in their graves to see what is happening here today as the East takes over this country & we help them do this everyday without batting an eye. The human rights comm.is about as sterile as the young offenders act .That is why people have taken matters into their own hands out of frustration that we have law breakers who laugh at the legal system here .....I believe they stopped night fishing in some areas near Cornwall as a saftey measure to prevent serious assaults on Asian people .....But we can't label all of them , as I said , many are nice decent people and very smart to boot ! We need lots of dialog with them explaining the rules of fishing here in Ontario . ,,,,e.g......taking a pail full big minnows for the grinder is against the rules......only 120 minnows per person is allowed.....I blame much of this violence on our government for cutting back on the MNR and allowing this violence to happen . I'm sure we will see more..........Put more info in the reg.book , what is the price of another page ?

[Tom Chopin]

You have to remember we are almost all immigrants to this country..........

[bigugli]

You have to remember we are almost all immigrants to this country..........

The more correct term would be "refugee" People came to Canada to escape hardship elsewhere, And that began with the Loyalist exiles after the 13 colonies revolted.

[fanggo]

I feel sad for you AW. I contribute a lot of what you said to the fact that you are young. I assume you were taught the word "nipper" by someone who is

also full of hate.

I have to correct you on the "...we dorpped a nuke on japan." because Canada has never dropped a NUKE on anybody. We don't even have them.

I can only assume that by "we" you mean primarily white people? or perhaps North America? which also consists of Mexico by the way.

Now for you smerchly and your first words "I don't think at all that your post is racist AW..." You must be kidding.

I have to stop writing before I say the wrong thing.

[fanggo]

I think that the terms "refugee" and "immigrant" when speaking of the founding of Canada is still debatable.

Both terms are considered correct and the use of the word immigrant is understood far more by the Canadian people

as to their forefathers arriving than the other.

As all dictionaries adapt to the most comprehensive word used to promote understanding of a word - I think that immigrant will prevail.

[AwolRJ]

I said nipper tipping, because thats what it was called in the paper when it happened... I could come back and say ur prejudice against people younger then you for your statement, but we all have opinions and I respect yours!

My cousin was hit by a Rpg last month in afghanistan, one guy died rest were in serious condition till they got em to germany. He might never walk again. If Canadians want these type of people immigrating to our country, we all need to give our head a shake!

[fanggo]

AW the fact that you or anybody uses or repeats words like "nippertipping" or talks about "those or these" TYPE of

people have a problem.

And I am not prejudice against younger people or you. But thank you.

Not prejudice against anybody.

I only like those people that I respect, admire, am in owe of, delight me, helpful, kind, companionate, friendly, just, non bigoted, share a common interest, like me, positive, enlightening - basically most people.

Very few I don't like. None I hate.

And I think and talk that way. I have no choice.

Nasty or hurtful words will only come from me when I believe they are deserved by the person I am addressing.

http://www.billcasselman.com/unpublished_w...ppertipping.htm

[smerchly]

"Hate" is a useless word .....profound dislike is about as bad as it gets.......an excerpt from the link above is also as bad as it gets ......

"But who is the cause of most local fishery declines? Would it be strangers who have never lived in the area? Or is it local industry or local white-trash slob Canadians merrily tossing leaky drums of crankcase oil into formerly pristine waters? Or bozo white fishermen crapping over the gunnels of their boat whenever nature calls, voiding ill-chewed Quadruple Burgers into some protected, no-fishing area? I am reminded of an old Homer & Jethro parody whose lyric contained the line “We sailed with Captain Tuna, the chicken of the sea.”

Hmmmm."white trash Canadians" .......nice . I know a black dude who called my step daughter white trash & she layed him out ! No hate there....just a little colour blind......

I give Awol credit for standing up for the men & women who fought or gave their lives to make this a great country with the standards and laws we live by.......not to have our way of life hacked away piece by piece to suit other countries ways ........isn't that why most of them left ? Looking many years ahead , I am sure we will lose our identity and our laws will be changed to suit the "majority" . "White trash" will be the minority & "they" will finally be able to establish their rules here .

This is a very controversal topic & it will get much worse as more demands are made to change this country from being anything but "Canadian". And yes , we are all decendants from another country ...but have well planted roots from many generations back with many years of formulating our laws .

All we are asking of new comers is , join us , please obey our laws , respect our way of life or leave .

Did you expect most of us to roll over & play dead as so many drones do .......

[fanggo]

...

I believe that because the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic were involved form the start on this one. They have made the RULES as well as this Fishing Without Fear available to all of them by publishing this in the various dialogues, that this is indeed a good thing. And I believe that

by making it ware to all of us that you just can't/NOT TOLERATED/illegal, be nasty at anybody fishing that you don't know, seems too young to rebuttal, or is of another race.

Just my thoughts.

[ROB MCINTOSH]

I am really getting sick of this crap. i just read this in the National Post and this Barbara Hall needs to get her butt out and talk to the angling comunity. It has nothing to do with a racial issue they just happen to be the ones that are getting caught by other local anglers and are being seen keeping more than their limit.Ms. Hall stated that locals justify their anger by saying that the out-of-towners are overfishing. One quote reported stated that more and more Asians are raping our lakes. And she stated even if you are breaking the law that is no reason for violence,and she goes on to say that there is no evidence of illegal fishing. What Is she smoking, how many of them got busted in Port for over fishing.oos bass and also no licence. Gee I guess she didn't call the MNR to see if there were any tickets isued before she flaps her gums.So the bottom line is they don't have their facts right,It could be a bunch of anglers from timbuckto fishing and keeping oos bass or keeping to many fish over their limimt and they would have to call it TIMBUCKERTO TIPPING the only thing this is doing is getting them votes from a growing poulation that it was affecting. This is the only reason that this is getting so much attention it has nothing to do with the infractions that are taking place because it don't matter where they come from they would still get tossed in for doing what they think they are over and above the law for "because they didn't know" Beleive me they know the laws. In mainland China there are no angling regulations and no licence is required.Jim Etherington writes in the artical "Lets all Welcome Our Chinese Anglers" they don't waste anything they catch (so this makes it right)So why do we need to get a licence is it because we were born here and like putting out cash for everything that the government says we have to put out for. So if the laws are made for us to follow for what ever reason then why do imagrents not have to put out the cash also. Oh wait we allready know that the ones running this country are as dumb as they are in Timbuckerto so we don't vote for them so that means that the new ones comming into this country are OVER AND ABOVE THE LAW as long as they vote for the butt heads. See my point it is ussless. Just my veiw so please vote next time and make ALL RULES APPLY TO EVERYONE. Catfish

[smerchly]

Funny how these "writers" seem to be experts about everything they write about ,but they haven't a clue what really goes on ...... agencies like the OHRC & Family & CAS either have too much power and abuse their "services" , or they are badly informed and make stupid remarks to the media which swallows it up to make ($$ news $$) . Bottom line is, if the courts do nothing to punish law breakers.......somebody else will ........right or wrong , and that makes this country look bad to the rest of the world . News travels fast these days , we have putes that can go to Asia & back in less than a second.......

Here's an idea.......A CO approaches you on land or lake.....He asks to see your licence ......He brings out a chart with about 10 species of fish & asks you to ID the fish & state what the limits or slot size is for keeping for consumption . If you miss more than one question , he keeps your licence until your learn the answers with a test that you pay for........just a thought that would help keep us honest ...........

"Most" people don't seem to have a problem learning the rules of the road ........why not fishing as well ?

[bigugli]

. Bottom line is, if the courts do nothing to punish law breakers.......somebody else will ........right or wrong , and that makes this country look bad to the rest of the world . News travels fast these days , we have putes that can go to Asia & back in less than a second.......

Maybe if we look so evil, some might have second thoughts about 'Canada the good and easy'.

If Canada were an individual, our need for having everyone like us would be seen as a pycho-emotional illness to be treated through extensive therapy and medication.

Canadians should start loving Canada more and worrying about the rest of the world less.

[jwl]

my only comments about this are...if these are supposed to be Canadian-Asian...or Asian-Canadian anglers or what ever these people are being reffered to as.......the key work there should be Canadian...and at that...they should be following and abiding by Canadian rules and regulations period the end...if the MNR doesn't have enough CO's to keep on top of violators then I really don't blame local anglers where ever they happen to be from..for taking matters into thier own hands at all. There is no excuse for ignorance of the law!!! no matter what your ethnicity is. Funny how all the people many of us see breaking the law when it comes to poaching and things all have one thing in common....they all speak some sort of broken English...they all seem to never understand what you are talking about when appraoched about violating a rule, and they seem to blatantly break the law with no regard......no exuses....zero tollerance....take away thier fishing priveleges forever.....they should really start making it harder to get afishing liscence...and at that, they should also make it mandatory to show a fishing liscence when purchasing any fishing related gear.....you need to show a liscence to by bullets....so why not the same for fishing!!!

[rick]

"Most" people don't seem to have a problem learning the rules of the road

Wow, do I ever disagree with that one Smerch.

[smerchly]

Wow, do I ever disagree with that one Smerch.

Do ya really think it's that bad Rick.....maybe in the Falls ,yes..... Now , remember i said "learning" the rules ,since you have to write a test........I never said "abiding" by the rules of the road .......