Dan Andrews Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've noticed a huge drop in the monarch butterfly population this year. They keep screaming they're going to crash but the last 2 years showed significant numbers. There is still plenty of milkweed around. What's changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've noticed a huge drop in the monarch butterfly population this year. They keep screaming they're going to crash but the last 2 years showed significant numbers.There is still plenty of milkweed around. What's changed Temperature. The cosmetic, and indescriminate use of BT by guerilla gardeners to kill every worm in their path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Temperature. The cosmetic, and indescriminate use of BT by guerilla gardeners to kill every worm in their path. Yeah my dad was saying there used to be tons of worms on the sidewalks after rains but now there are hardly any. Those guerilla gardeners and their improvised agent orange probably killed them all off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyWishy Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yeah my dad was saying there used to be tons of worms on the sidewalks after rains but now there are hardly any. Those guerilla gardeners and their improvised agent orange probably killed them all off. Erik, I think the Big Ug is refering to "worms" as in caterpillars and worms that molt into butterflys and moths, they eat a lot of leaves in peoples gargens. Not earthworms that come out after a rain. Come to think of it I haven't seen many caterpillars at all this year and last year mostly saw cabbage looper worms and cabbage moth RRRRrrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Erik,I think the Big Ug is refering to "worms" as in caterpillars and worms that molt into butterflys and moths, they eat a lot of leaves in peoples gargens. Not earthworms that come out after a rain. Come to think of it I haven't seen many caterpillars at all this year and last year mostly saw cabbage looper worms and cabbage moth RRRRrrrr. LOL oops! but i havent seen any monarch caterpillars either this year. I read somewhere that the monarch caterpillars were laying their eggs on dogstrangling vine/ cow tripping vine/ black swallow wart and that the caterpillars were dieing because of it. I saw lots of gypsy moth caterpillars this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 There is definitely going to be a gypsy moth outbreak this year. They're everywhere. I have found larvae in the most unlikely places. Last year was bad enough. I have not seen them on milkweed however so I doubt they are a competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofeather Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I remember the migrations in the fall at Gage Park, Hamilton as a young'un out with my grandfather. There used to be thousands. There is a definite drop in their numbers... One of the big reasons? They have lost most of their winter hiding grounds in Mexico. National Geographic News June 10, 2003 For every fourth or fifth generation of monarch butterflies that summer in the U.S. east of the Continental Divide, the pull of high-altitude Oyamel fir forests in central Mexico is irresistible. By the millions each fall they point south and flutter up to 2,000 miles (3,200 kilometers) to reach the forests on a few small mountain peaks in an approximately 60-square-mile (155-square-kilometer) area in the volcanic highlands that serve as the butterflies' winter retreat. ---- Many studies have demonstrated that an intact oyamel forest ecosytem is key to the monarchs' winter survival. The forest provides unique microclimatic conditions which promote monarch survival in freezing temperatures, slow dessication (drying out), and conserve energy stores until the spring remigration. This forest ecosystem is the most endangered in Mexico, constituting less than 2% of Mexican forests. However, wood harvesting continues and many people are reluctant to control the access of the very poor landowners to their forests, even though current and projected demands on the forest cannot possibly be sustained. learner.org Throw in weather effects, both here and in their hibernation grounds (global warming?), reduced forage due to milkweed being considered a noxious weed and the herbicides being used to control them and all these new fangled chemicals and insecticides being thrown about our environment to control so-called pests (not to mention GE crops both engineered to be more pest resistant and having killer genes to kill off natural plant reproduction [hey, who can honestly say that they are not affecting things never even considered by these scientists?])....its a wonder they have survived this far! I have seen a total of 2 Monarchs thus far this season AND yesterday saw my first honey bee in about 3 years (another scary story taking place right under our noses without a definite clue as to what is going on). Cro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I've seen many more honey bees this tear but only one monarch and hardly any butterflies at all??? Could the new bio agent for gypsy moths be backfiring or is it just this whack weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Might be just a touch early, I get quite a few Monarchs around my Butterfly Bushes in the back yard and they are just starting to bloom now. Saw a few monarchs the other night fluttering up around a neighbours Silver Maple in the evening sunlight. Curiously my daughter and I went hiking a couple of years ago along the creek that flows from the Rockaway Fall to Lake Ontario, nice piece of Conservation Authority property there, and in a field of wildflowers , goldenrod, Queen Anne's Lace and such we encountered probably the most diverse assortment of butterflies I have seen with the most visible being " Giant Swallowtails " it was the first time I have ever seen them in my 59 years. They seemed to be the most intersested in the purple flowers of the thistles. I believe this was near the end of August, never have gone back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yup, good point. Saw the first monarch to land on my butterfly bush yesterday and a hummingbird moth today. The purple astress is just starting to bud. I've been watching the wild turkeys fly to roost and I can tell you I wish the mosquito's were as late as the monarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth11 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 i have seen a few fluttering around last couple of days but not much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D McV Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 1. Gypsy moths have been controlled in the region for a while now, look up next time you hear a chopper and you may see a boom on either side of it,and poss a spotter chopper with it. 2. agent orange was a herbacide,not insectacide. 3.There is a pestacide ban in ontario,Quebec,parts of Man,PEI? and NY is considering it aswell. New pestacides are safer than any made b4 and are tested to make sure which is why things like agent orange and diazinon etc were taken off the market years b4 the ban because they were not tested properly IN THE PAST. I have used commercial chems and yes I will call them chems on my lawn for 6 years until now from par3 (weeds), damension(crabgrass), merit (grubs), sevin (surface/subsurface insects), round up or glyphos (any unwanted foliage in the garden and beds). My place is like a worm farm so as far as saying oh it's the guirilla gardeners etc think again! Maybe you just have crap soil because the organic matter in it has depleated or your ph balance in your soil is off so worms are no longer there ? I have also fed my toad worms from spring to fall for 4 years and it's huge and healthy so if the worms were toxic wouldn't the toad be dead? Sorry I had to vent as I am tired of hearing about pestacides when they are not even (legaly) used anymore and were banned by people looking for votes who used my service and are now whinning about how there properties don't look the same anymore and should have done more research on IPM (look it up) instead of cutting more jobs at a difficult time and made use of such products up to pros only! Most of our problems are from weather changes like how bass were on their nests late this year steel head being caught allover late into june-early july seasonal plants popping later etc. I could go on but you get my point. I haven't seen a monarch around but did start seeing humming birds in early june. I have always wanted to bring my wife to peele island to see the migration as she loves butterlies. Thanks for taking the time to read my rant. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 2. agent orange was a herbacide,not insectacide. Yes but it also killed animals and insects and caused many birth defects and deaths among humans. One example of this is in the Mekong delta many fishermen were having a very hard time after the vietnam war because the "Ranch hands" had sprayed agent orange from their hueys onto the marshes and most of the Mekong delta to expose hidden VC and NVA ports. The agent orange leaked and/or went directly into the water killing most of the fish, plants, insects and contaminating drinking water. I get your point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Andrews Posted July 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 3.There is a pestacide ban in ontario,Quebec,parts of Man,PEI? and NY is considering it aswell. New pestacides are safer than any made b4 and are tested to make sure which is why things like agent orange and diazinon etc were taken off the market years b4 the ban because they were not tested properly IN THE PAST. Today's chemicals may be less poisonous but Canada alone still dumps millions of liters of the stuff on their grass. Every time the professionals drove down my street to spray my dog would start itching. You can smell the stuff and it smelled just like it always did. It urks me to think they can cash in on the "green movement" and actually tell us this stuff is environmentally friendly. They can pay anyone to do research and come up with a favorable outcome. My dog is dead now due to a foot infection that just wouldn't go away. Her constant scratching and biting it would go away until the greenlawn guys sprayed the street once again. That's proof enough for me. My place is like a worm farm so as far as saying oh it's the guirilla gardeners etc think again! Maybe you just have crap soil because the organic matter in it has depleated or your ph balance in your soil is off so worms are no longer there ? were banned by people looking for votes who used my service and are now whinning about how there properties don't look the same anymore and should have done more research on IPM (look it up) instead of cutting more jobs at a difficult time and made use of such products up to pros only! Thanks for taking the time to read my rant. Dave Didn't sound like a rant to me. It is important to get both sides of the story. Thanks for a small view into the other side, I imagine there is allot more to learn. As for worms in the grass I don't use any chemicals and I hardly have any worms. I suspect the PH is bad. Plantain is my only concern but I'm not putting petroleum based chemicals just to get rid of it either. As for the whiners, that's too bad for them. Why we believe that we need a perfectly manicured grass canvass around our homes is beyond me. No one plays golf on my lawn so a little clover is a good mix. Flowers for the honey bees and the worms love it too and if need be I can actually harvest table fare from my lawn. Especially seeing I don't use harmful herbicides and the dog is gone. We've already determined the gypsy moth program doesn't use "chemicals" as we know them rather they are using a parasitic agent. We,ve been told purple bugs only eat loostrife and lampricide only has an effect on lampreys. I remember a good week of fishing going dead when the boat came by the cottage with the lamprey program. All I was saying is the research isn't necessarily accurate and we'll have to wait and see what happens. As for the economy we won't have one if we screw this environment up any more. Wealth has to be achieved responsibly and the long term effects have to be considered before getting rich. Unfortunately it never goes in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Temperature. The cosmetic, and indescriminate use of BT by guerilla gardeners to kill every worm in their path. We have neighbours who spend countless hrs. manicuring their grass to a point of being ridiculous .....fertilize ,aeriate , roll , water ,cut ....cut & cut every 4 days ....mind boggling . A close friend lost 2 labs at about 7 yrs. old .After consulting with his vet , he is now convinced his dogs cancers were caused by using killex on the grass . I used chlordane many yrs ago to kill grubs & it stated this chem would remain active for 4 yrs. in the soil ....The worms disappeared!I do not use any of these chemicals now .If you want to kill broad leaf weeds like plantain or creeping charlie etc. try white vinegar ......with sunlight those weeds are gone , but it can kill grass as well so you need a small sprayer to hit the weeds only . I used liquid sunlight dish soap mixed about 10 (h2o)to 1soap in a spray bottle to kill ants or even yellow jacket wasps ....kills them very quickly & is dirt cheap . We are too dependant on chems. ,just look at the store shelves ! My bee keeper neighbour told me enough about how the goverment lets big corp.companies "experiment " with a new product which in some cases has caused damage to crops like grapes & he's convinced , has also killed off the honey bees .......But , hey , don't worry , we can buy all our fruit & vegs. from other countries that use any poisson they want to fill their bank accounts. When I see all these new "green , enviro-friendly" products being pushed , I'm sorry, but I don't believe it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkangel06 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I havnt seen a monarch a catapiller or honey bee in a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I havnt seen a monarch a catapiller or honey bee in a long time! The whole honey bee thing, "CCD" Colony Collapse Disorder, that started a few years ago is really scary. If it continues it will probably have a greater effect on the foods we eat in our lifetimes than global warming. Wind pollinated plants like corn and other grains will be little affected but the production and yields of fruits and vegetables will be drastically reduced. As of late they are thinking it is the sum of a number of factors rather than a single cause. There is no other pollinator quite a well adapted to the task as the honey bee, some farmers now pay big bucks to have hives placed in their crops , to some big beekeeping ops this is where the money is , not the honey. Saw a program recently of a operation where the hives are moved by transport truck all over the US depending on the season just for the value of pollination and increased yields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I'm sorry if I've given you the wrong impression DMcV. , however my opinion is far from uneducated having been both a farmer and horticulturalist for some 2 decades with the appropriate levels of training in pest and disease mgmt through MOA and SAF, and the competence to do crop assessments in a multi million dollar export trade. I have always been an advocate of IPM, and that also requires education to work effectively. There is now in place a pesticides ban, but that is only recent. Prior to that your suburban gardener could pick up a wide variety of products and all too often ignore and double, or treble, the mix ratios, sometimes even combining different chemicals in the sprayer to save time, but with terrible and potentially dangerous consequence. Then, when things go bad they go back to the garden centre for answers. Then, I would be asked to inspect and assess the problem and offer remedial solutions, if any. As to the reference to worms, I used it in the common usage the suburbanites have for caterpillars, and the application of BT to control caterpillar populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyWishy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Well, I saw my first two monarchs of the year yesterday and today. Yay. I hope they come to my butterfly bushes so I show the kids and get some pics. The one yesterday cruised right by while I was talking to my neighbour, the one today was fluttering about a field of clover a block from home, may have been more there, I was just stopped at the stop sign and happened to see it there. FW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I saw a monarch on the highway on the way to ottawa it was going to hit our windshield but it just barely missed it.......................only to hit the antenna dead on. It was wrapped around our antenna for about an hour untill we came to a pitstop. It was kind of like a windsock. I think I have a picture somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel M Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I havnt seen a monarch a catapiller or honey bee in a long time! I live out in the more rural part of Allanburg on a small farm (Horses, not crops though, so we don't spray chemicals on anything), and I've noticed recently we've had four or five monarchs move onto our land as I've seen them fluttering around. Since early spring, we've had throngs of big bees and honeybees buzzing around. Some of them even went into our barn and made a nice sized nest in one of my sister's expensive saddle blankets, ruined because of their honey. Luckily, our horses know well enough to stay away from the milkweed, probably one of those cool survival instincts, so we don't touch it so the butterflies can have at it. We've also got a butterfly bush in our garden and some other flowering bushes they seem to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkangel06 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I live out in the more rural part of Allanburg on a small farm (Horses, not crops though, so we don't spray chemicals on anything), and I've noticed recently we've had four or five monarchs move onto our land as I've seen them fluttering around. Since early spring, we've had throngs of big bees and honeybees buzzing around. Some of them even went into our barn and made a nice sized nest in one of my sister's expensive saddle blankets, ruined because of their honey. Luckily, our horses know well enough to stay away from the milkweed, probably one of those cool survival instincts, so we don't touch it so the butterflies can have at it. We've also got a butterfly bush in our garden and some other flowering bushes they seem to love. I saw a monarch this saturday for the first time in a long time! Its too bad i couldn't trade some of my hornets for your honey bees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel M Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I saw a monarch this saturday for the first time in a long time!Its too bad i couldn't trade some of my hornets for your honey bees Oh, we have a few too many of those too. They like to put their nests where we least expect it too. My Mom got a nasty sting the other day when we were cleaning some junk up from around the house. They put a nest inside the handle of one of those two-wheeled dolly carts (The handle has a hole on the end), and when my Mom grabbed it to move it, they came stormin' out and got her right below the elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.T. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh, we have a few too many of those too. They like to put their nests where we least expect it too. My Mom got a nasty sting the other day when we were cleaning some junk up from around the house. They put a nest inside the handle of one of those two-wheeled dolly carts (The handle has a hole on the end), and when my Mom grabbed it to move it, they came stormin' out and got her right below the elbow. We had a bad wasp problem that kept recurring so my dad fired up the pressure washer put it on "jet" and I sat in the backyard shooting at wasps for a couple of hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkangel06 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 We had a bad wasp problem that kept recurring so my dad fired up the pressure washer put it on "jet" and I sat in the backyard shooting at wasps for a couple of hours I prefer varsol in a spray bottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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