Tom S Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Ran across this article while doing my morning reading. http://www.ginkandgasoline.com/steelhead/you-may-be-killing-steelhead-and-not-even-know-it/ Personally I try to keep any fish from thrashing around to much when unhooking just for my sake, but it can make a difference in the long-term health of the fish as well. Not always easy to do, but the article make some good recommendations for ways to safely keep fish from giving themselves brain damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHasFish Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Good read. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooey87 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Great read Tom. I was just wondering if they did à study of these fish jumping dams and other obstacles when spawning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floatman Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Bingo! These fish bang into all kinds of physical barriers in the push to spawn. Almost every river in the Great Lakes as well as every river in the west has rocks , dams , Fish ladders. Those fish bang into them all at one time or another. I personally think the data reflects the view of the author. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't want to see this thread go off the rails, and hope that it can stay civil and we try to find some common ground. I had a member who asked about a local Trout derby that's coming up. Concern for the way the fish are handled at these derbies when it comes to weighing in. Ive not been to one, so Im only going on what I have been told. Fish are hoisted up and weighed hanging by the gills or jaw. Surely this must do some damage to the fish, and some people don't take this idea very well. Is there not a better way to handle the fish for the weigh ins either on a flat scale or tub so as to cause less stress on the fish and maybe give the fish a chance at survival? Surely a 15lb fish hanging on a scale and dumped back in the water is going to die?? I know some of the Bass tourneys I have seen fish must be kept alive in the wells, and are transferred into large boats with holding tanks to be released back into the Lake. Just wondering what the thoughts are of those who fish the trout derbies like the one in Port ? Is there a better way of giving the fish a chance to survive either with some sort of Cradle or say a tub instead of hanging it up? Please keep this thread civil...I know a lot of people are very sensitive when it comes to handling fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 is this derby a catch and release? never heard of one of those for trout/salmon expect when its just pictured proof of measurements, no weighing. either way this article reinforces my belief of using a net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheperchman Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 im no marine biologist but fish dont really have brains in the way that humans have brains, do they? isnt it more or less just a brain stem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 im no marine biologist but fish dont really have brains in the way that humans have brains, do they? isnt it more or less just a brain stem? Hi Mark ......I have done a fair bit of taxidermy over the years (skin mounts) , and a fish does have a brain, encased by a semi-hard cartilage which I break apart with pliers . The "brain" is a clear liquid-jelly substance which can be scraped out of the cavity & filled with putty . I am not a biologist but I know that trout are not built strong like walleye ,pike or bass which have a more bone-like structure supporting their necks . I have noticed , from photos here that most serious trout anglers take great care to release their fish very carefully .....even the carpers take great care when fishing solo or during their derbies . We have a great diverse fishery in Ontario , something we need to cherish and respect . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnfishguy11 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Dave, I believe when any fish of larger nature is hung from a scale or held in the same manor, the fish WILL be adversely effected! You actually run the risk of elongating the spine dislocating disks.... Catch and release only works in a perfect world where it is practiced properly! The sad truth is that even many seasoned Angelers are uneducated or simply don't care about proper catch and release practices.... This is why some countries are going back to keeping what you catch and outlawing catch and release! And to people complaining about the derby in port.... I invite the to go down there and see the slaughter fest that goes on, on a regular day! It's studies like this that cement in me head that the bulk of the fish released will not survive the long term... Of course it will differ from species to species. But if trout are dying from a swallow brain after not being removed from water, what makes people believe that the brown they held out of the water and milked for the last 3 minutes then pictures taken, just in time to be tossed back in with no revival will survive? I STRONGLY believe fishing licences should be 3x the cost and should involve a day course and a test.... But that won't help with the lack of enforcement in Ontario..... Sorry for the rant, this is a touchy subject for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturehasIT Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 good views by everyone. interesting to see wht happens on the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Bingo! These fish bang into all kinds of physical barriers in the push to spawn. Almost every river in the Great Lakes as well as every river in the west has rocks , dams , Fish ladders. Those fish bang into them all at one time or another. I personally think the data reflects the view of the author. FWIW I think there may be a couple factors for the reason you don't see dead fish from them just banging into things. 1. Brain is located on the top of the head, if the fish is oriented properly and hits something it's jaw or nose will come into contact first, not the top of the head. From what I understand and from what Smerchly said trout are not heavily built up there. 2. A fish jumping builds up it's momentum under the water, fighting against water resistance. The researchers felt that when the fish was mostly out of the water and thrashed about they built up more momentum then usual and could bash themselves hard enough to do damage. I don't think this is such a big issue with some of the heavier-built fish, but from observations here and in the article it seems like trout do have this problem and should be handled with care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manutd_jeeves Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Everyone makes excellent points, however all because fish may potentially suffer cerebral trauma during their reproductive cycles, does not mean further endorsing this damage by not using a net warrants the decision. As anglers, we need to show more respect to the sport, and the beautiful animals we seek to catch. I am in no way a bunny hugger, just have a lot of respect for the sport that has given so much to me. I always do my best to bring a net, or tail the fish as quickly as possible. Also, another consideration to keep in mind is release tactics, I see too often, guys just throwing the fish back, and not reviving it. Good read! And just my two cents, not trying to step on others' toes! Jeeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthemoney Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I endorse C&R but this article has no weight. There are no names of the scientists (the study, the company and why) or lackies that we involved, no number of fish caught, how many were found dead. no source data to back up any of this. The article does point out the top of the head is vulnerable now I'm no expert but I'm sure that genetic feature had been there a long time. This damage could have been caused when the GPS was implanted as the fish was dropped into the surgery area or during any of the movements from catch to release time. Sorry to many variables as to why they died. If head trauma from C&R was the case many of our tribs would be full of dead steelhead, either by their very nature of hitting or banging into things or by the numerous C&R anglers out there. I know of numerous good to great steelheaders who in a couple of hours to a weekend can C&R 20 to over 100 steelhead all the while only keeping the occassional 2 - 4 lb male or badly hooked fish. I will continue with the careful handling and quick release of all fish and support the use of a net. Good discussion to help all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishfight Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 No wonder .......it make valid sense, the retired hockey players are suing the NHL organization for long term head injury repercussion. On serious note. Great info! we all should be more cautious in landing our catch. The more we get into this sport, the more we have yet to learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeBaggin Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I don't buy it...at all. They are more resilient than you think. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 RoeBaggin that is My thought exactly ! A lot of the fish at the pool are caught several times(hook scars/holes) & are no worse for wear.I belive they navigate the currents pretty well & avoid obstacles for the most part.If you can picture them swimming full speed into a rock you must have seen something I missed? Handle with care & respect as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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